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hullphil

937 posts
First used 09/01/17

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Hull City

#1
16/12/2018 at 12:42

.... is duff!

He's no better than the current incumbents....

All hot air and big ideas....  

Keep it, don't hoof it... 

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NationalTiger

Administrator
First used 09/01/17

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Hull City

#2
16/12/2018 at 13:24

Actually, I've been hearing the Allams have supposedly been playing them off.

Pay a million upfront or we deal with an alleged other buyer.

Duffen's called their bluff apparently... aside from feeling the club is vastly over-priced now due diligence has been completed.

Not withstanding the consortium doesn't have a pot to piss in, like... 

Now then... 

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Driff_Tiger

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8426 posts
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#3
16/12/2018 at 14:02

Seems that isn't the case. Consortium (understandably) wanting assurances, presumably from council, on development potential. At last a bit of insight.  

The fish rots from the head #AllamOut 

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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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7356 posts
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#4
16/12/2018 at 14:24

It’s only ever the land the overseas investors are interested in. The footy gets cast a few crumbs while the energy goes into a Leisure/retail/housing complex that no one wants or needs.

Not that this is likely to be down that route though. Non-existent buyer haggling with a non-descript seller.

Allams don’t actually need the money. Duffen doesn’t actually have the money. Results in a bit of a void. Well, a lot of a void. 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#5
16/12/2018 at 19:07

What would one of the purchasers need assurances for?

All the land that the club is leasing is open for development application. The land next to the land which the club leases, is public land and so the council can give no legal assurances.

This is no different to when Duffen chaired the club and he will be fully aware of this.

Burns has been fed tripe to explain why the deal is not going through.


ESSEX GULL  

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potential

2280 posts
First used 09/01/17

#6
16/12/2018 at 20:01

Allan and the council conducting their land sale negotiations via the front page of the Mail could well have soured any development for those that follow.

A car park that is Hull Fair sacrosanct, a public park, and yes, the remainder is prime real estate. Ppppfffffttttt.

A penniless buyer being threatened by the non existent interested party. I think an aaarrrrrfffffff is in order. Ppppfffffttttt pah. 

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#7
16/12/2018 at 21:14

The lies get even more ridiculous. A millionaire Saudi investor puts a cash purchase of a football club on hold whilst he negotiates with Hull City Council to give him assurances that the 3 previous actual owners haven't been able to get...

And from Burns' same source that guaranteed to him that the Chien Lee consortium paid a £6 million cash deposit, which they then forfeited to the Allans once the sale collapsed.



ESSEX GULL  

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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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7356 posts
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#8
17/12/2018 at 09:54

What does it all add up to eh?

Not much.

Unless it’s a knock-down price to relieve themselves of the admin, this isn’t going to shift anytime soon. My take is there will be some house clearance in Jan. all the high earners will be sold or given away. If they can reduce the weekly losses to £25k someone might have a punt at it.

You’d need all of 5 mins to decide that HCC are not giving any land away for free. It’s a football play and not much of one at that.

I still think it’s heading for administration, after the January sales. 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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karlberg

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2724 posts
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#9
17/12/2018 at 10:55

Quote Quote by RichardCheatham - City AFC on 17/12/2018 at 09:54
What does it all add up to eh?

Not much.

Unless it’s a knock-down price to relieve themselves of the admin, this isn’t going to shift anytime soon. My take is there will be some house clearance in Jan. all the high earners will be sold or given away. If they can reduce the weekly losses to £25k someone might have a punt at it.

You’d need all of 5 mins to decide that HCC are not giving any land away for free. It’s a football play and not much of one at that.

I still think it’s heading for administration, after the January sales.

They gave plenty away to Siemens.
Its a buyers market and the longer this drags on the stringer the buyers hand gets. 

link; www.finesse-internet.co.uk/the-best-trip/ (THE BOOK THE CLUB REFUSED TO SELL). 

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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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7356 posts
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#10
17/12/2018 at 14:14

KB. You’ve seen these people in action, cutting noses off to spite faces.

Under normal circumstances I’d say you are correct, but rather than admit they had to take a small bath on the price I think they’d prefer to say no one came good and they don’t want to subsidise the club to £5m a year, see ya.

The other thing that bothers me greatly is the lack of cash (apparently) available for future investment in the team. All very well getting it over the line but if they have to cut costs next week the club isn’t much better off.

Catch 22.

Hoping for the best outcome regardless. 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#11
17/12/2018 at 15:37

Duffen's consortium don't want to pay Allan's price.

There were additional costs once the purchase negotiation got underway - I don't know whether they are additional debt or maintenance costs. Obadiah probably has a better idea.

The press release, to me, is Alan tripe to paving the way to put the club in administration... The seller dropped out and we had no choice...


ESSEX GULL  

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potential

2280 posts
First used 09/01/17

#12
17/12/2018 at 18:06

Everyone who leaves in the transfer window will need replacing. At some time. Prospective buyers will see and know this.

Right here and now, they will be lucky to get the pound back that they paid for City. Let the discussions run and run as to whether they have got their money back over the years once they have gone. Whenever that may be, and no time soon. 

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Obadiah

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6475 posts
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#13
17/12/2018 at 19:39

Quote Quote by essexgull on 17/12/2018 at 15:37
Duffen's consortium don't want to pay Allan's price.

There were additional costs once the purchase negotiation got underway - I don't know whether they are additional debt or maintenance costs. Obadiah probably has a better idea.

The press release, to me, is Alan tripe to paving the way to put the club in administration... The seller dropped out and we had no choice...


ESSEX GULL


I don't believe there are any additional costs or hidden surprises. Duffen should be able to work through the accounts backwards and forwards. After all he used to run the club.

Duffen doesn't have the money and is only the spokesman for a group of businessmen. Its more than likely he hasn't got enough people interested to pay the asking price. Nothing sinister or complicated about that. If they do have the money why pay £40 million or £25 million when you can pay substantially less than that in February. Especially as its increasingly likely that Adkins will keep us up.

The Allams couldn't have bought any better publicity for the club being up for sale than they got today. The Council told the world they would be prepared to do a deal on the stadium and land if approached. That may well push the price up a little.

Alternatively Assem Allam decided to drop the Council in it one more time.

I find it incredible that the consortium doesn't know what land the SMC has, what the SMC's relationship with the Council is and what the Allams think of the Council. After all Duffen dealt with them for years.

There is no chance the Allams will put the club into administration unless they substantially increase the non-footballing debts and that should result in them being disqualified. if that happens I expect you and Sir Richard Cheatham to put in a letter of complaint to the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. I can provide you both with the address.

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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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7356 posts
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#14
18/12/2018 at 05:14

Having read the HDM article I’m not sure the council has officially said it’s prepared to do a deal on the stadium

A couple of councillors have said they would listen to development ideas, so long as Hull FC and the Fair are not affected.

It falls in to line with the sale process per se, the square root of nothing. 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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NationalTiger

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First used 09/01/17

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Hull City

#15
18/12/2018 at 18:37

Quote Quote by potential on 16/12/2018 at 20:01
Allan and the council conducting their land sale negotiations via the front page of the Mail could well have soured any development for those that follow.

A car park that is Hull Fair sacrosanct, a public park, and yes, the remainder is prime real estate. Ppppfffffttttt.

A penniless buyer being threatened by the non existent interested party. I think an aaarrrrrfffffff is in order. Ppppfffffttttt pah.


Listen to the man. 

Now then... 

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NationalTiger

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Hull City

#16
18/12/2018 at 18:38

Quote Quote by essexgull on 16/12/2018 at 21:14
The lies get even more ridiculous. A millionaire Saudi investor puts a cash purchase of a football club on hold whilst he negotiates with Hull City Council to give him assurances that the 3 previous actual owners haven't been able to get...

And from Burns' same source that guaranteed to him that the Chien Lee consortium paid a £6 million cash deposit, which they then forfeited to the Allans once the sale collapsed.



ESSEX GULL


And this, too. 

Now then... 

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NationalTiger

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Hull City

#17
18/12/2018 at 18:43

Quote Quote by RichardCheatham - City AFC on 17/12/2018 at 14:14
KB. You’ve seen these people in action, cutting noses off to spite faces.

Under normal circumstances I’d say you are correct, but rather than admit they had to take a small bath on the price I think they’d prefer to say no one came good and they don’t want to subsidise the club to £5m a year, see ya.

The other thing that bothers me greatly is the lack of cash (apparently) available for future investment in the team. All very well getting it over the line but if they have to cut costs next week the club isn’t much better off.

Catch 22.

Hoping for the best outcome regardless.


When I read this, part of me thinks, balls to it, let the Allams keep the club - and in turn, the club starts to sting them financially. Repeatedly. I know it's wrong, but I can't help it.

So I'll sign off by saying, I agree with your last sentence, instead. 

Now then... 

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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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7356 posts
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#18
19/12/2018 at 10:32

its a joke.

One might note that it’s only the HCM that “reports” on this event now. They haven’t bothered questioning who the mystery Saudi group are, probably thinking they come and go by magic carpet, hence the lack of any solid evidence.

More likely is Duffen looked to secure a deal in principle, then go and find some money. Naturally the Allams have had him by the knackers and he’s not got enough acumen to deal with it. There is no Saudi Group and the other potential buyers don’t exist either.

Unlikely they will run the club beyond Jan when the window shuts. Sell a few, give a few away, Bank the Premier league parachute money and off on the rest of their lives.

What that does for the club is not very much. Administration, possible insolvency and out of the league. There is likely to be someone with a few mill who fancies a go at it, but if there was a serious investor they would have shown their hand by now.

It looks quite desperate to me. 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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Obadiah

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6475 posts
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#19
19/12/2018 at 12:55

Quote Quote by RichardCheatham - City AFC on 19/12/2018 at 10:32
It looks quite desperate to me.


Not as desperate as it looks to the Allams though.

You'll get your chance to put in a letter of compliant if they put the club into administration after walking off with the parachute payment and the fire sale proceeds this January.  

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#20
19/12/2018 at 14:12

There are/were Saudi-based buyers. Duffen has been working out of Dubai and Oman the last couple of years doing a football-financing consultancy role and met them via this. Part of Duffen's spiel/speech was how clubs can be bought with no down payment and then used as losing income streams. Global politics is changing and it's in Saudis' interests to get their money out before the rest of the world starts blocking bank accounts from there.

There also is a US consortium, who were knocked back early on, as were more forthright about the asking price. As you probably know, Arabic business mentality is that the asking price is always initially agreed to and then bartered down.

Neither of the two consortiums will pay anywhere near what the Allans are demanding and to me, it increasingly looks like neither will pay anything.

One of the reasons that I disagree with Obadiah is that the Alans could get out if they really wanted. The fact that they're hanging on for a set price, indicates to me that they've got a bottom line which they will equal in making/saving by putting the club into administration.


ESSEX GULL  

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Obadiah

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6475 posts
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#21
19/12/2018 at 15:54

Quote Quote by essexgull on 19/12/2018 at 14:12

One of the reasons that I disagree with Obadiah is that the Alans could get out if they really wanted. The fact that they're hanging on for a set price, indicates to me that they've got a bottom line which they will equal in making/saving by putting the club into administration.
ESSEX GULL


They make no savings from putting the club into administration, in fact, it would cost them money.

They could get out tomorrow. All that's required is they write off the debt to Allamhouse and sell the shares for £1.

Its all down to how much of their loans they are prepared to write off. £10 million, £20 million, £40 million, £50 million, the choice is theirs and theirs alone. Whilst there is a gap between what the purchaser can pay and what the Allams will sell for they will remain owners.  

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Hulltim8 City AFC

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20722 posts
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#22
19/12/2018 at 18:12

Quote Quote by essexgull on 19/12/2018 at 14:12
There are/were Saudi-based buyers. Duffen has been working out of Dubai and Oman the last couple of years doing a football-financing consultancy role and met them via this. Part of Duffen's spiel/speech was how clubs can be bought with no down payment and then used as losing income streams. Global politics is changing and it's in Saudis' interests to get their money out before the rest of the world starts blocking bank accounts from there.

There also is a US consortium, who were knocked back early on, as were more forthright about the asking price. As you probably know, Arabic business mentality is that the asking price is always initially agreed to and then bartered down.

Neither of the two consortiums will pay anywhere near what the Allans are demanding and to me, it increasingly looks like neither will pay anything.

One of the reasons that I disagree with Obadiah is that the Alans could get out if they really wanted. The fact that they're hanging on for a set price, indicates to me that they've got a bottom line which they will equal in making/saving by putting the club into administration.


ESSEX GULL


Do you get all this information down the pub or are Norwegian taxi drivers exceptionally well-informed on the in and outs of the goings on at a football club you have no connection with? 

2005 Labour got 355 seats from 35.2 % of the vote on a 62.4% turnout. 2015 Tories got 331 seats from 36.9% of the vote on a 661% turnout. Left wing fannies moan the second one is sooooo unfair and we need electoral reform. But didn't utter a peep,about the first one. 

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#23
19/12/2018 at 19:02

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 19/12/2018 at 15:54


They make no savings from putting the club into administration, in fact, it would cost them money.

They could get out tomorrow. All that's required is they write off the debt to Allamhouse and sell the shares for £1.

Its all down to how much of their loans they are prepared to write off. £10 million, £20 million, £40 million, £50 million, the choice is theirs and theirs alone. Whilst there is a gap between what the purchaser can pay and what the Allams will sell for they will remain owners.


They save the amount that it would cost to run the club on a weekly basis, surely? Then if the debt/loan loss is collateralised into the allanhus, there will be an element of tax write off and I think this includes post dated interest payments.

We'll see soon enough.


ESSEX GULL  

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NationalTiger

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Hull City

#24
19/12/2018 at 19:40

Quote Quote by RichardCheatham - City AFC on 19/12/2018 at 10:32
its a joke.

One might note that it’s only the HCM that “reports” on this event now. They haven’t bothered questioning who the mystery Saudi group are, probably thinking they come and go by magic carpet, hence the lack of any solid evidence.

More likely is Duffen looked to secure a deal in principle, then go and find some money. Naturally the Allams have had him by the knackers and he’s not got enough acumen to deal with it. There is no Saudi Group and the other potential buyers don’t exist either.

Unlikely they will run the club beyond Jan when the window shuts. Sell a few, give a few away, Bank the Premier league parachute money and off on the rest of their lives.

What that does for the club is not very much. Administration, possible insolvency and out of the league. There is likely to be someone with a few mill who fancies a go at it, but if there was a serious investor they would have shown their hand by now.

It looks quite desperate to me.


I agree with most of this, but... (see the bold) due diligence has come and gone and proof of funds to purchase the club has been seen by the Allams. Apparently so - and already reported in the media.

Of course, there are ways to fudge these things.

Now then... 

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NationalTiger

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#25
19/12/2018 at 19:42

Quote Quote by NationalTiger on 19/12/2018 at 19:40


I agree with most of this, but... (see the bold) due diligence has come and gone and proof of funds to purchase the club has been seen by the Allams. Apparently so - and already reported in the media.

Of course, there are ways to fudge these things.



Hell.

Just read that back and I sound like Hulltim8.

Sorry Cheats.

Sorry Tim. 

Now then... 

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Driff_Tiger

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8426 posts
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#28
19/12/2018 at 21:14

Quote Quote by NationalTiger on 19/12/2018 at 19:40


I agree with most of this, but... (see the bold) due diligence has come and gone and proof of funds to purchase the club has been seen by the Allams. Apparently so - and already reported in the media.

Of course, there are ways to fudge these things.



When I heard that in the media it temporarily gave me hope.
But, a serious question - DD, proof of funds, etc ..... says who exactly?
Do we really have only the Allams word (ha ha fucking ha) for it? Either directly from them, or via someone from within the club that they have fed a line to?
Unless there's evidence that's come from elsewhere, I can't believe a damn word of it.
One of the very few things we do know is that they (the Allams) are out and out liars, deceivers, despicable people.  

The fish rots from the head #AllamOut 

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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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7356 posts
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#29
19/12/2018 at 22:29

1. It ain’t being sold for £1 before the jan window with the debt written off. If it was, there would be a queue around the KC times 10. Spend a quid and get £45m back? Last time I heard something like that my Nigerian cousin was on to it straight away, you may have heard from him periodically.

2. Due diligence is nothing. If there was genuine proof of funds for this deal, not someone’s bank account, they would have done it by now.

3. It’s not worth £45m, £20m or maybe even £10m if Jan comes and goes with Bowen/Grosicki topping up the £34m parachute payment the Allams have clearly marked as “theirs”.

4. New owners have to show some capability to run the club moving forward. The Duffen plan is fools gold. He nicked the idea off the Glazers but I doubt the Arabs are daft enough to fall into that trap. Not least, if they were trying to offshore funds, like some Egyptian owners not a few miles from the KC, they would have already done it. Thing is, there are no capital restrictions like the Chinese. Aside from Man City, who else is owned by an Arab? Duffen is full of shit, spending someone else’s money is easy, ask Negredo.

5. Administration and relegation look increasingly likely. A bit of success on the pitch has lightened the mood a touch but it’s a short period to go before jan starts and the mayhem at the club will start again. It’s playing right in to the Allams hands here. Seriously, we might not make it all the way through to the end of the season.

6. The damage is deep IMO. Old bastards like me have had a gut full. I’m smug in the knowledge there were periods of enjoyment watching Hull City. 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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potential

2280 posts
First used 09/01/17

#30
20/12/2018 at 00:00

Pay a quid to start pumping £100 000 a week in? I won't be in any queue for that bargain.

If everything is trousered, parachute payments and transfer fees, then yes, a quid sounds about right.

Administration and business genius CV nobody tells me how to run my business seem somewhat incongruent, but it does look a real possibility.

Yes to the good times. I feel for the family with two young kids, who looked about the right age to have been at Wembley the first time, and be there for the last one. All good times, and now this mess. Mind you they probably can't afford it now.  

Post edited on 20/12/2018 at 00:01 by potential

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