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theotherphantom

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#1
18/04/2018 at 16:22

Someone on Not606 commented on the sum of the scores in this season's games against Burton Albion. Consequently I've had a couple of trawls through history to see what I could find. I hope this is definitive; I did two runs through historic results and the final lists were not the same (which is why I often look twice). So it is possible something has been missed.

I've only looked at the two league games each season, so for cases in which we played another team more than twice in a season I've ignored the other games. Perhaps I'll look into that another time. A quick check shows that in 2007-8, we beat Watford 9-2 over four games, including the play-off semis, and in 1953-4 we beat Brentford 11-4 over two league games and three FA Cup games.

I looked for games in which we'd scored five or more goals, and then checked the other game from that season. For this reason I can only include instances in which we've scored 9 or more goals against another team in the two league games of a season. There have been 18 such occurrences, so they happen about once every six years on average, and yet three occurrences happened in the 1930-31 season, and another the following season. Perhaps surprisingly, the longest gap between occurrences was the 26 seasons between 1958 and 1984, which encompasses the Chilton-Wagstaff era.

We have scored 10 or more goals against teams in the two league games on nine occasions, including the four when we scored double figures in a single game. Aston Villa have also reached double figures four times, but the leaders in this respect are Birmingham City with five; four of these came when they were known as Small Heath, and the fifth almost three decades before they added "City" to their name. Since then, none, and all five happened before we recorded any. A report on double-figure scores is in the oven.

You'll see that stuffing a team once in a season gives no clues as to what might happen in the other game. This effect is only evident in the top half-a-dozen listed here, but there were many instances in which our total didn't reach nine goals due to the other game having a disappointing result.

Here are the highest aggregates listed in the order of our goal total, the other team's total, and the season.

13-2 1938-9 Carlisle h11-1 a2-1

12-7 1919-0 Wolves h10-3 a2-4

11-1 1930-1 Halifax h10-0 a1-1
11-3 1937-8 Southport h10-1 a1-2

10-1 1957-8 Oldham h9-0 a1-1
10-2 1930-1 Doncaster h8-2 a2-0
10-2 1948-9 Halifax h6-0 a4-2
10-4 1931-2 Rochdale h4-1 a6-3
10-5 1984-5 Orient h5-1 a5-4

9-0 1909-0 Birmingham h7-0 a2-0
9-1 1914-5 Lincoln h6-1 a3-0
9-1 1951-2 Coventry h5-0 a4-1
9-1 2002-3 Carlisle h4-0 a1-5
9-1 2017-8 Burton A h4-1 a5-0
9-2 1906-7 Glossop h5-0 a4-2
9-2 2004-5 Tranmere h6-1 a3-1
9-4 1930-1 Crewe h5-1 a4-3
9-4 1994-5 Crewe h7-1 a2-3

The Orient one is the only time we've scored 5 or more against a team twice in a season.


Two-match aggregates for both teams:
Since it is possible that we could have had two 4-4 results against a team, and I haven't checked for that, the second and subsequent ones may not be the second, etc, highest in our history.

19 12-7 1919-0 Wolves h10-3 a2-4
15 13-2 1938-9 Carlisle h11-1 a2-1
15 10-5 1984-5 Orient h5-1 a5-4
14 11-3 1937-8 Southport h10-1 a1-2
14 10-4 1931-2 Rochdale h4-1 a6-3


Margins we "won" by:
I can only show margins of 9+, due to potentially ignoring instances where the aggregate total ended 8-0 (and there was at least one of those).

11 13-2 1938-9 Carlisle h11-1 a2-1
10 11-1 1930-1 Halifax h10-0 a1-1
9 10-1 1957-8 Oldham h9-0 a1-1
9 9-0 1909-0 Birmingham h7-0 a2-0


Here's the lot again in date sequence:

9-2 1906-7 Glossop h5-0 a4-2
9-0 1909-0 Birmingham h7-0 a2-0

9-1 1914-5 Lincoln h6-1 a3-0

12-7 1919-0 Wolves h10-3 a2-4

11-1 1930-1 Halifax h10-0 a1-1
10-2 1930-1 Doncaster h8-2 a2-0
9-4 1930-1 Crewe h5-1 a4-3
10-4 1931-2 Rochdale h4-1 a6-3
11-3 1937-8 Southport h10-1 a1-2
13-2 1938-9 Carlisle h11-1 a2-1

10-2 1948-9 Halifax h6-0 a4-2

9-1 1951-2 Coventry h5-0 a4-1
10-1 1957-8 Oldham h9-0 a1-1

10-5 1984-5 Orient h5-1 a5-4

9-4 1994-5 Crewe h7-1 a2-3

9-1 2002-3 Carlisle h4-0 a1-5
9-2 2004-5 Tranmere h6-1 a3-1

9-1 2017-8 Burton A h4-1 a5-0

There were six occurrences in the 1930s and then six in the subsequent 64 years.


While I was checking this lot out, I did find other possible happenings to investigate, so I'll try to remember those for future posts. I'm also planning to write a program to do it all for me. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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Thunder

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#2
18/04/2018 at 21:59

Yeah!

You need to catch yerself on, or get a Girlfriend or something. 

Illegal immigrant = immigrant = migrant = persecuted refugee = asylum seeker = entitled. Thanks for that B.B.C.  

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I'm an alligator...

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#3
18/04/2018 at 22:38

Quote Quote by Thunder on 18/04/2018 at 21:59
Yeah!

You need to catch yerself on, or get a Girlfriend or something.


Amad_Tiger said exactly the same thing... 

1964 - 2014 

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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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#4
19/04/2018 at 15:28

A good post by ToP. 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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theotherphantom

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#5
19/04/2018 at 17:16

Just noticed that I didn't turn round the away score of the 9-1 against Carlisle in 2002-3, so we won 4-0 here and 5-1 there. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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essexgull

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#6
19/04/2018 at 18:05

Keep on posting these posts, Phantom old bean.


ESSEX GULL 

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theotherphantom

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#7
22/04/2018 at 02:50

I didn't look for occurrences in which City were on the wrong end of these big aggregates or even where we didn't score 5 in one or other of the two games. I have, however, acquired a very useful new data source this weekend, and it makes things a lot easier.

This season we've had

15 goals
7-8 Bristol City h2-3 a5-5

10 goals
6-4 Birmingham h6-1 a0-3

I'll ignore 9 and less (the Wolves games were 5-4 in their favour and the Norwich tally was 5-4 in our favour).

So, here's the rest of history (excluding the ones already mentioned above):

13 5-8 1905-6 Chelsea h4-3 a1-5
10 7-3 1906-7 Grimsby h4-2 a3-1
11 4-7 1907-8 Glossop h3-2 a1-5
10 6-4 1907-8 Leeds C h4-1 a2-3
10 5-5 1907-8 Leicester h3-2 a2-3
11 8-3 1909-0 Grimsby h5-1 a3-2

10 5-5 1911-2 Birmingham h4-0 a1-5
10 6-4 1911-2 Bradford PA h5-1 a1-3
11 5-6 1911-2 Burnley h4-1 a1-5
11 3-8 1911-2 Wolves h3-0 a0-8 <--- this is our record defeat, but we did beat them 10-3 a few years later
11 3-8 1912-3 Huddersfield h1-3 a2-5
11 6-5 1912-3 Stockport h3-2 a3-3
13 5-8 1914-5 Leeds C h2-6 a3-2
11 7-4 1919-0 Leicester h5-1 a2-3
11 4-7 1919-0 South Shields h3-0 a1-7

10 3-7 1923-4 Leeds U h1-2 a2-5
10 7-3 1924-5 Burnley h5-2 a2-1
11 4-7 1924-5 Sheff W h4-2 a0-5
10 5-5 1928-9 Wolves h1-3 a4-2
13 4-9 1929-0 West Brom h3-2 a1-7

13 5-8 1931-2 Crewe h2-4 a3-4
10 4-6 1931-2 Stockport h4-4 a0-2
11 6-5 1932-3 Rotherham h4-2 a2-3
11 8-3 1932-3 Stockport h3-0 a5-3
10 5-4 1933-4 Man Utd h4-1 a1-4
11 6-5 1933-4 Plymouth h5-4 a1-1
10 3-7 1934-5 Newcastle h1-1 a2-6
12 5-7 1934-5 Plymouth h1-1 a4-6 <--- this is the only other away game with 10 goals in it
10 4-6 1934-5 Sheff Utd h0-3 a4-3
10 2-8 1935-6 Barnsley h1-3 a1-5 This really doesn't look like we had a good season...
11 3-8 1935-6 Charlton h2-4 a1-4 Nope, we came
12 3-9 1935-6 Doncaster h2-3 a1-6 last by
10 5-5 1935-6 Leicester h3-3 a2-2 a dozen points
10 3-7 1935-6 Newcastle h2-3 a1-4 and
12 4-8 1935-6 Swansea h3-1 a1-6 got
10 3-7 1935-6 West Ham h2-3 a1-4 relegated.
10 6-4 1936-7 Barrow h3-2 a3-2
11 6-5 1936-7 Darlington h4-3 a2-2
14 6-8 1936-7 Gateshead h3-2 a3-6
10 5-5 1936-7 Mansfield h3-0 a2-5
10 7-3 1936-7 Southport h3-2 a4-1
10 6-4 1936-7 Tranmere h5-2 a1-2
13 5-8 1938-9 Bradford C h3-2 a2-6
11 7-4 1938-9 Hartlepool h4-1 a3-3
10 4-6 1938-9 New Brighton h3-0 a1-6
10 3-7 1938-9 Rochdale h3-3 a0-4
12 6-6 1938-9 Stockport h4-4 a2-2

12 8-4 1947-8 Accrington S h4-2 a4-2
10 5-5 1949-0 Blackburn h3-1 a2-4
12 4-8 1949-0 Bradford PA h3-3 a1-5
10 7-3 1949-0 Plymouth h4-2 a3-1
12 6-6 1949-0 Preston h4-2 a2-4
10 3-7 1949-0 Sheff W h1-1 a2-6

12 5-7 1950-1 Barnsley h3-3 a2-4
11 7-4 1950-1 Luton h5-3 a2-1
10 6-4 1950-1 QPR h5-1 a1-3
10 7-3 1950-1 Southampton h4-1 a3-2
10 5-5 1951-2 Swansea h5-2 a0-3
10 3-7 1952-3 Barnsley h2-2 a1-5
11 6-5 1953-4 Bristol C h4-1 a2-4
11 6-5 1954-5 Notts C h5-2 a1-3
11 3-8 1955-6 Bristol C h1-3 a2-5
10 4-6 1955-6 Bury h2-3 a2-3
10 3-7 1955-6 Middlesbrough h2-2 a1-5
10 4-6 1955-6 Stoke h3-2 a1-4
10 2-8 1955-6 Swansea h1-4 a1-4
11 8-3 1956-7 Tranmere h4-1 a4-2
10 3-7 1956-7 Wrexham h1-2 a2-5
14 7-7 1957-8 Bradford PA h3-3 a4-4
11 7-4 1957-8 Halifax h5-2 a2-2
10 5-5 1957-8 Workington h3-2 a2-3
10 4-6 1958-9 Southampton h3-0 a1-6
10 3-7 1959-0 Middlesbrough h3-3 a0-4

10 6-4 1960-1 Newport h5-1 a1-3
10 6-4 1961-2 Torquay h4-0 a2-4
10 8-2 1962-3 Bristol R h3-0 a5-2
11 5-6 1962-3 Millwall h4-1 a1-5
10 5-5 1962-3 QPR h4-1 a1-4
12 5-7 1963-4 Shrewsbury














>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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theotherphantom

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#8
22/04/2018 at 03:32

I didn't look for occurrences in which City were on the wrong end of these big aggregates or even where we didn't score 5 in one or other of the two games. I have, however, acquired a very useful new data source this weekend, and it makes things a lot easier.

This season we've had

15 goals
7-8 Bristol City h2-3 a5-5

10 goals
6-4 Birmingham h6-1 a0-3

I'll ignore 9 and lower (the Wolves games were 5-4 in their favour and the Norwich tally was 5-4 in our favour).

So, here's the rest of history (excluding the ones already mentioned above):

13 5-8 1905-6 Chelsea h4-3 a1-5
10 7-3 1906-7 Grimsby h4-2 a3-1
11 4-7 1907-8 Glossop h3-2 a1-5
10 6-4 1907-8 Leeds C h4-1 a2-3
10 5-5 1907-8 Leicester h3-2 a2-3
11 8-3 1909-0 Grimsby h5-1 a3-2

10 5-5 1911-2 Birmingham h4-0 a1-5
10 6-4 1911-2 Bradford PA h5-1 a1-3
11 5-6 1911-2 Burnley h4-1 a1-5
11 3-8 1911-2 Wolves h3-0 a0-8 <--- this is our record defeat, but we did beat them 10-3 a few years later
11 3-8 1912-3 Huddersfield h1-3 a2-5
11 6-5 1912-3 Stockport h3-2 a3-3
13 5-8 1914-5 Leeds C h2-6 a3-2
11 7-4 1919-0 Leicester h5-1 a2-3
11 4-7 1919-0 South Shields h3-0 a1-7

10 3-7 1923-4 Leeds U h1-2 a2-5
10 7-3 1924-5 Burnley h5-2 a2-1
11 4-7 1924-5 Sheff W h4-2 a0-5
10 5-5 1928-9 Wolves h1-3 a4-2
13 4-9 1929-0 West Brom h3-2 a1-7

13 5-8 1931-2 Crewe h2-4 a3-4
10 4-6 1931-2 Stockport h4-4 a0-2
11 6-5 1932-3 Rotherham h4-2 a2-3
11 8-3 1932-3 Stockport h3-0 a5-3
10 5-4 1933-4 Man Utd h4-1 a1-4
11 6-5 1933-4 Plymouth h5-4 a1-1
10 3-7 1934-5 Newcastle h1-1 a2-6
12 5-7 1934-5 Plymouth h1-1 a4-6 <--- this is the only other away game with 10 goals in it
10 4-6 1934-5 Sheff Utd h0-3 a4-3
10 2-8 1935-6 Barnsley h1-3 a1-5 This really doesn't look like we had a good season...
11 3-8 1935-6 Charlton h2-4 a1-4 Nope, we came
12 3-9 1935-6 Doncaster h2-3 a1-6 last by
10 5-5 1935-6 Leicester h3-3 a2-2 a dozen points
10 3-7 1935-6 Newcastle h2-3 a1-4 and
12 4-8 1935-6 Swansea h3-1 a1-6 got
10 3-7 1935-6 West Ham h2-3 a1-4 relegated.
10 6-4 1936-7 Barrow h3-2 a3-2
11 6-5 1936-7 Darlington h4-3 a2-2
14 6-8 1936-7 Gateshead h3-2 a3-6
10 5-5 1936-7 Mansfield h3-0 a2-5
10 7-3 1936-7 Southport h3-2 a4-1
10 6-4 1936-7 Tranmere h5-2 a1-2
13 5-8 1938-9 Bradford C h3-2 a2-6
11 7-4 1938-9 Hartlepool h4-1 a3-3
10 4-6 1938-9 New Brighton h3-0 a1-6
10 3-7 1938-9 Rochdale h3-3 a0-4
12 6-6 1938-9 Stockport h4-4 a2-2

12 8-4 1947-8 Accrington S h4-2 a4-2
10 5-5 1949-0 Blackburn h3-1 a2-4
12 4-8 1949-0 Bradford PA h3-3 a1-5
10 7-3 1949-0 Plymouth h4-2 a3-1
12 6-6 1949-0 Preston h4-2 a2-4
10 3-7 1949-0 Sheff W h1-1 a2-6

12 5-7 1950-1 Barnsley h3-3 a2-4
11 7-4 1950-1 Luton h5-3 a2-1
10 6-4 1950-1 QPR h5-1 a1-3
10 7-3 1950-1 Southampton h4-1 a3-2
10 5-5 1951-2 Swansea h5-2 a0-3
10 3-7 1952-3 Barnsley h2-2 a1-5
11 6-5 1953-4 Bristol C h4-1 a2-4
11 6-5 1954-5 Notts C h5-2 a1-3
11 3-8 1955-6 Bristol C h1-3 a2-5
10 4-6 1955-6 Bury h2-3 a2-3
10 3-7 1955-6 Middlesbrough h2-2 a1-5
10 4-6 1955-6 Stoke h3-2 a1-4
10 2-8 1955-6 Swansea h1-4 a1-4
11 8-3 1956-7 Tranmere h4-1 a4-2
10 3-7 1956-7 Wrexham h1-2 a2-5
14 7-7 1957-8 Bradford PA h3-3 a4-4
11 7-4 1957-8 Halifax h5-2 a2-2
10 5-5 1957-8 Workington h3-2 a2-3
10 4-6 1958-9 Southampton h3-0 a1-6
10 3-7 1959-0 Middlesbrough h3-3 a0-4

10 6-4 1960-1 Newport h5-1 a1-3
10 6-4 1961-2 Torquay h4-0 a2-4
10 8-2 1962-3 Bristol R h3-0 a5-2
11 5-6 1962-3 Millwall h4-1 a1-5
10 5-5 1962-3 QPR h4-1 a1-4
12 5-7 1963-4 Shrewsbury h4-2 a1-5
10 5-5 1963-4 Watford h2-2 a3-3
10 5-3 1963-4 Wrexham h4-2 a1-3
11 8-3 1965-6 Brentford h4-1 a4-2
10 8-2 1965-6 Bristol R h6-1 a2-1
12 10-2 1965-6 Exeter h6-1 a4-1 <==== This one was missed previously and does, after all, falls nicely in the 1960s.
10 7-3 1965-6 Oldham h5-2 a2-2
10 4-6 1965-6 QPR h1-3 a3-3
11 7-4 1965-6 Scunthorpe h3-2 a4-2
11 6-5 1965-6 Swansea h4-1 a2-4
11 7-4 1965-6 Walsall h3-2 a4-2
10 3-7 1966-7 Blackburn h2-3 a1-4
12 7-5 1966-7 Crystal P h6-1 a1-4
11 5-6 1966-7 Ipswich h1-1 a4-5
11 8-3 1966-7 Northampton h6-1 a2-2
10 5-5 1966-7 Plymouth h4-2 a1-3
10 4-6 1966-7 Preston h2-2 a2-4
10 2-8 1967-8 Bolton h1-2 a1-6
12 7-5 1967-8 Bristol C h4-2 a3-3
10 3-7 1968-9 Birmingham h1-2 a2-5
11 6-5 1968-9 Middlesbrough h3-0 a3-5
11 7-4 1969-0 Portsmouth h3-3 a4-1
10 6-4 1969-0 Preston h3-1 a3-3

10 5-5 1970-1 Sheff W h4-4 a1-1
10 4-6 1971-2 Middlesbrough h4-3 a0-3
10 4-6 1972-3 Blackpool h1-2 a3-4
10 7-3 1972-3 Portsmouth h5-1 a2-2
10 3-7 1976-7 Bolton h2-2 a1-5
10 6-4 1978-9 Plymouth h2-1 a4-3
12 5-7 1978-9 Swansea h2-2 a3-5
12 4-8 1979-0 Brentford h2-1 a2-7

10 6-4 1980-1 Exeter h3-3 a3-1
12 7-5 1981-2 Hartlepool h5-2 a2-3
10 6-4 1981-2 Scunthorpe h2-0 a4-4
10 5-5 1985-6 Oldham h4-2 a1-3
11 4-7 1987-8 Bournemouth h2-1 a2-6
10 5-5 1988-9 Bournemouth h4-0 a1-5
14 5-9 1989-0 Bournemouth h1-4 a4-5

11 4-7 1992-3 Blackpool h3-2 a1-5
10 3-7 1992-3 Stockport h0-2 a3-5
11 6-5 1993-4 Barnet h4-4 a2-1
10 6-4 1995-6 Wycombe h4-2 a2-2
11 6-5 1997-8 Colchester h3-1 a3-4
13 7-6 1997-8 Swansea h7-4 a0-2
12 4-8 1997-8 Torquary h3-3 a1-5
10 4-6 1998-9 Scunthorpe h2-3 a2-3

11 6-5 2001-2 Mansfield h4-1 a2-4
11 7-4 2003-4 Northampton h2-3 a5-1
10 3-7 2008-9 Man City h2-2 a1-5
11 4-7 2009-0 Everton h3-2 a1-5

10 4-6 2010-1 Middlesbrough h2-4 a2-2
12 8-4 2012-3 Birmingham h5-2 a3-2
10 8-2 2013-4 Fulham h6-0 a2-2
10 4-6 2013-4 Newcastle h1-4 a3-2
11 4-7 2016-7 Bournemouth h3-1 a1-6
10 3-7 2016-7 Crystal P h3-3 a0-4
11 1-10 2016-7 Tottenham h1-7 a0-3

Curious run at the end of the 1980s where 6 games against Bournemouth produced an aggregate score of 14-21. It picked up again in 2016-7. We should avoid them.

One very interesting thing is that despite us racking up 10+ goals against others on ten occasions, only one team has done it to us.


It's getting on a bit so I'll see what further comments I can conjure up about that lot anon. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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essexgull

8980 posts
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#9
22/04/2018 at 09:21

In celebration of this new statistic, I drank a bottle of Teeling Small Batch.

TOP old bean, if you were American, you'd be a baseball fanatic. Stats geek galore, the actual sport is secondary.


ESSEX GULL 

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theotherphantom

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#10
22/04/2018 at 14:40

I probably would. Baseball was a passing interest in my teens before I decided it wasn't. Now I'm only interested in football and cricket, sportswise.

Apologies for the 2:50am post - I was composing it on here and everything just stopped. I didn't even know it had got posted, and I certainly didn't click the Post button. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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