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Hull City Forum >> CI Fans Forum >> The Allam Years, Where did the money go?
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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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#1
12/03/2018 at 19:42

An analysis of the Hull City accounts tells a few stories, though I hasten to add, not all the secrets, since 2010.

It wasn’t a bed of roses before, but football has moved on in recent years, so comparisons are not always relevant.

A case in point here, the 2010/2011 season had revenue of £11.4m, plus parachute payments of £13m. Revenue in the last year submitted, £116.9m. Ten times the amount. Ok, Prem v Champs, but you get the picture.

So, cut to the chase, where did the money go.

Not in salaries. In 2009,Duffen got paid £1m, half of the total directors pay of £2m. In 2012, total directors pay was £37k. The answer is the interest payments, mostly.

Since the 2010 accounts total interest payable was £21.6m, though some small amount by comparison is third party interest to banks and leasing. There is a bit more juice in the SMC accounts to the tune of another £1m.

What we don’t and can’t see is if there is any transfer pricing going on between Allam admin and that being absorbed by City and SMC. Could be a lot, could be nothing much. Hence, unless you get your hands on the internals we have got to speculate.

£20m doesn’t seem much in relation to the profit on transfers and tv money. They have previously talked about bringing money in from abroad and if so, it makes the laundering of said funds a valid reason for the process.

Running the numbers there wasn’t really any time when the loan money was at risk. parachute payments when relegated last season are £47m this season and £38m for next season. As it was only a one season sojourn in the Prem we miss out on a third tranche of £17m. Accordingly, my guess is this time next season we will be heading for administration unless the Allams use up the £30m tax credit they have from accumulated losses at City in the Allam group. That is worth another £10m for them, thank you. The loan value at the end of 2017 was £81m. Gain on transfers will reduce that. I don’t know if Maguire, Robertson were included in the 2017 accounts, Clucas won’t be. £47 in parachute payments helps reduce £81m closer to nil.

In a nutshell, we are aware they have taken a minimum of £20m from owning City via the interest payment route. Tax might add another £10m. Offshore funding probably another £10m And I’d estimate internal transfer pricing for admin costs etc would be £5-£10m.

Total, £50m.

Ok, it’s an estimate, but it’s not a bad one.

In 2009/10 the loans at the company were £15m. In 2016, it was £100m.

Back to square one though now. It was worth the ride for the Allams. Possible free land and grants at the outset, ending up circa £50m in their pocket.

CTID 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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TedLloyd

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#2
13/03/2018 at 10:45

What is our total income since December 2010 when they took over, total income including profit on players sold, isn't it in excess of half a billion pounds? 

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Driff_Tiger

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#3
13/03/2018 at 10:57

Having to do the work that our so called journalists should be doing.
They should have been all over this (and previous) like a rash, asking the 'tough' (obvious) questions, holding to account, etc etc.

The fish rots from the head #AllamOut 

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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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#4
13/03/2018 at 11:31

Quote Quote by TedLloyd on 13/03/2018 at 10:45
What is our total income since December 2010 when they took over, total income including profit on players sold, isn't it in excess of half a billion pounds?


Total revenue from 2010 onwards is £400m, plus parachute £34m (excluding this years £47m). I don’t have the gross transfer fees but a rough calc is over £50m. Snoddy, Harold, Robertson, Clucas, even Diame at £5m I think, is £60m.

So over half a billion in takings, but that’s not what falls in to their pockets to be fair. I suspect other avenues of income occurred too. 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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TedLloyd

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#5
13/03/2018 at 12:20

Massive takings we may never see again. Similar income over 7 years to say Swansea & Burnley where they have been invested a lot more wisely.

I'd choose football people as owners over business people in the future.  

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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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#6
13/03/2018 at 12:26

Quote Quote by Driff_Tiger on 13/03/2018 at 10:57
Having to do the work that our so called journalists should be doing.
They should have been all over this (and previous) like a rash, asking the 'tough' (obvious) questions, holding to account, etc etc.


We know all we need to know about the media Driff. You can’t blame them, it’s the norm to take the middle ground. We need to get Chris Kamara round to tea.

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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#7
13/03/2018 at 12:33

Quote Quote by TedLloyd on 13/03/2018 at 12:20
Massive takings we may never see again. Similar income over 7 years to say Swansea & Burnley where they have been invested a lot more wisely.

I'd choose football people as owners over business people in the future.


It’s an awful lot of money to have nothing to show for it. Very few football people left in football so far as I can tell. I think it’s the beginning of the end. Saw the arse playing Watford (local derby) and it was only 2/3 full. Waiting list of 40,000 though! 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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essexgull

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#8
13/03/2018 at 17:07

So, if the figures are correct, the Allans have taken 10% of turnover as profit, during their ownership. That's not what a business analyst would call a favourable operating profit margin, but I guess football is a special case, and had Steve Bruce not attained promotion a second time round, the Allans would be in the red.

My summation is that the Allans have been very, very lucky indeed, investing in a business when the tide was rapidly rising more than ever before and their profit entirely hinged on one man's acumen... who they effectively forced into a resignation.

I see the club being sold for a pound within two years.


ESSEX GULL



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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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#9
13/03/2018 at 17:43

There were times when it could have gone against them and times when they could have cashed out for more.

The bigger picture was the stadium and bucket loads of land for free, backed up with spurious EU grants and loans. That didn’t work out too well so plan B was to fook the fans and the council as much as possible. Even at break even they would have a victory stored in their hearts, if they have a heart of course.

It’s good money when backed up by a guaranteed income form the Prem.

Those Chinese launderers who were so bad even the Prem wouldn’t approve them are currently seeking a land sell off at Reading. Maybe make a larger one off killing, others like the Glazers, Gold & Sullivan continue to stick it to the club with an interest rate rape for loans that are not required.

No one is looking now, at least not in any inquisitory fashion. I heard Motson talking about West Ham being as bad as Luton v Millwall, the fucking old idiot and that wank stain Jim White (I think it’s his name) insisting Gold and Sullivan hadn’t taken one penny in salary or dividend, simply choosing to take it up the arse in defence of two thrieving bastards with no idea about running a football club for its intended purpose, just like the Allams.

Sure, it’s not the steal of the century but c£50m up on the deal ain’t bad and they get to blow an Egyptian raspberry to the fans of Hull City AFC.

It “not being as bad as we thought” isn’t any defence for the systematic abuse of the club and all who sail/sailed in her.

As I say, parachute payments finish next season and at that point I expect to see either administrators in the seat or a derivative if they can make use of the tax losses.

Cunts. 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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imperishablehcfc

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#10
13/03/2018 at 18:05

The last 10 years, and particularly the last couple of Sky deals, have been football's Klondike, the prizes on offer for those that claimed the right stake have been fantastic. The Allam's without doubt picked a very good stake in Hull Tiggers.

As with most gold rushes they tend to be a one-off opportunity, with only the initial stake holder making any real money (I'm ignoring pre Allam days as I don't believe any serious money was made by Buchannan etc) , it's gone now, gone forever I fear as those that follow won't have the goodwill of a naive Hull public second time around, remember when we were suggesting increasing stadium capacity? Sadly never again will this even be discussed

In essence they invested for 3 years, pretty much breaking even, knowing full well that their substantial revenue streams would last for 6/7. A cynic might say that this was always the plan , Hull Tiggers being a deliberate ploy to set the wheels in motion to stop investing and start collecting. Yes, really. 

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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essexgull

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#11
13/03/2018 at 18:21

Someone in the know has said that the Allans genuinely believed called the club Hull Tigers would add £30 million onto the club price to an Asian consortium.

Pretty much any owner now will use debt to fund the club - it makes sense to do so for tax purposes. Who doesn't.. Billionaire Arabs and Abramovich, who has effectively made all his spending on Chelsea back via the rise in asset value of Stamford Bridge. All the Chinese owners seem to use financial debt mechanisms to fund their purchases, rather than cash.

Ultimately the league management has to take responsibility for allowing it...
ESSEX GULL  

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GENERAL POODLE

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#12
13/03/2018 at 18:55

all a very very long way from jumpers for goalposts

and for that reason i'm out 

hull city tigers lions bears and aardvarks 

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RichardCheatham - City AFC

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#13
13/03/2018 at 23:22

2017 revenue was £116m.

No one was forced to spunk it on players and agents. In fact they didn’t really, aside from wages. Believe we paid £60k a week for Niasse.

With the parachute payments that trip back was worth nearly £200m. If you can’t secure the future following that then one suggests one is not really trying, or you have another agenda.

I don’t doubt some silly bastard did think renaming the club was worth millions, but they were wrong. No one knows about Cardiff City in Malaysia and no one cares they played in red with a dragon on the badge. These owners across the spectrum are fucking lunatics. They claim to be the smartest people on the planet but not one has mastered the black hole that is a football club.

Take Tottenham. Levy is held as being instrumental behind the resurgence of the club. They build a new stadium and hey, guess what, it now costs £1bn, up from a paltry £400,000,000. What kind of twat has a hiccup over £600m? And just how do you get that money back? Ah, charge the fan twice what he used to pay.

We are better of out of it and as soon as the Allams have drained the last shilling from the gas meter it will be left for the real fans to pick up the baton again.

At least we have memories of how it was. 

Bunkers Hill - See you in the next life 

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imperishablehcfc

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#14
15/03/2018 at 20:49

Remarkable turnaround at Cardiff, now they're pulling together, oh, and Colin. 

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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Lambrettaman

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#15
16/03/2018 at 08:04

Quote Quote by RichardCheatham - City AFC on 13/03/2018 at 23:22
2017 revenue was £116m.

No one was forced to spunk it on players and agents. In fact they didn’t really, aside from wages. Believe we paid £60k a week for Niasse.

With the parachute payments that trip back was worth nearly £200m. If you can’t secure the future following that then one suggests one is not really trying, or you have another agenda.

I don’t doubt some silly bastard did think renaming the club was worth millions, but they were wrong. No one knows about Cardiff City in Malaysia and no one cares they played in red with a dragon on the badge. These owners across the spectrum are fucking lunatics. They claim to be the smartest people on the planet but not one has mastered the black hole that is a football club.

Take Tottenham. Levy is held as being instrumental behind the resurgence of the club. They build a new stadium and hey, guess what, it now costs £1bn, up from a paltry £400,000,000. What kind of twat has a hiccup over £600m? And just how do you get that money back? Ah, charge the fan twice what he used to pay.

We are better of out of it and as soon as the Allams have drained the last shilling from the gas meter it will be left for the real fans to pick up the baton again.

At least we have memories of how it was.


The prices Tottenham just announced sound ridiculous, but they’re actually about the same as they were at WHL. 

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Hull City Forum >> CI Fans Forum >> The Allam Years, Where did the money go?