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candw

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#1
17/03/2019 at 13:59

I see it's along the free Coastal Path, refurbished with £2.1 million EU grant.

Sparsely attended because the rest of the Gammon Light Infantry are on manoeuvres readying for insurrection.

Amazing how Treeza can have 3 goes at passing off the same shite, but the people have only one.

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essexgull

8980 posts
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#2
18/03/2019 at 18:52

It was shite in that it wasn't as economically good as the UK have had it so far being in the EU, but it did, however, offer an orderly Brexit resulting in the UK leaving the EU in the eyes of international law. The initial departure deal was nor will ever be as good as being a current member of the EU - future negotiations could have resolved this over the forthcoming years. It was purely a Withdrawal Agreement, written in very vague terms, which allowed decades of future negotiation on a multitude of terms and issues.

After 40 years of membership, with tens of thousands of laws and regulations tied together, it was as good as it could have got. I have lost all touch with the British public 'opinion', but if so many have been persuaded by Jacob Rees Mogg and Jeremy Corbyn that they personally could have got a better deal and so have pushed for May's deal to be rejected, idiocy has taken over.

As a result of this uncompromising hard Leave support, it looks less and less likely that the UK will brexit.

ESSEX GULL 

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TedLloyd

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#3
18/03/2019 at 19:05

Farage is far more effective exposing cunts like Tusk, Barnier and Verhofstadt directly in Strasbourg then a daft gimmicky march.

If Brexit fails or extends then he'll be in the EU parliament giving them shit for years ahead.

Unsure which way its going now Gull after Berkow's statement, its a shambles, we have no leadership from any quarter, is a hard crash out back on the agenda now? Why do all the Labour MP's favour a soft brexit or second referendum? 

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The Prince of Munster

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#4
19/03/2019 at 08:05

I said all along the UK will not leave the EU. The establishment don’t want to. It looks more and more likely I’ll be correct. 

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candw

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26502 posts
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#5
19/03/2019 at 15:30

Rees-Mogg and Corbyn are hardly pushing the same thing, are they? And Corbyn hasn't already made £7 million out of Brexit "problems".

Farage is a total charlatan and cunt. He attended 1 meeting out of 42 as a Fisheries committee member and was in the building but didn't vote on the 3 proposals to fix problems with the fishing policy. A salary, a pension and a fucking embarrassment to my country.

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essexgull

8980 posts
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#6
19/03/2019 at 16:12

I don't see much of a difference between Corbyn and Farage. Both talk rubbish, know very little about what they pretend to, supercilious when called out on it, make false promises and play to their supporters. Just two sides of the same coin. British MPs are not fit for purpose.

The deal was there on the table, many now complaining that they haven't been given a third chance to vote for the same thing, so Brexit most likely cancelled/delayed. As it is, maybe not a bad thing, as the politicians who would be in charge of further negotiations just aren't up to it. They're simply not qualified for the job, nor interested in becoming so. Scamming the taxpayers for decades by saying the 'right' thing to stay in power.


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Hulltim8 City AFC

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#7
19/03/2019 at 16:28

Quote Quote by essexgull on 18/03/2019 at 18:52
It was shite in that it wasn't as economically good as the UK have had it so far being in the EU, but it did, however, offer an orderly Brexit resulting in the UK leaving the EU in the eyes of international law. The initial departure deal was nor will ever be as good as being a current member of the EU - future negotiations could have resolved this over the forthcoming years. It was purely a Withdrawal Agreement, written in very vague terms, which allowed decades of future negotiation on a multitude of terms and issues.

After 40 years of membership, with tens of thousands of laws and regulations tied together, it was as good as it could have got. I have lost all touch with the British public 'opinion', but if so many have been persuaded by Jacob Rees Mogg and Jeremy Corbyn that they personally could have got a better deal and so have pushed for May's deal to be rejected, idiocy has taken over.

As a result of this uncompromising hard Leave support, it looks less and less likely that the UK will brexit.

ESSEX GULL


How exactly have we been a member for 40 years when the EU hasn't been in existence that long?
We were previously members of the EEC and voted in a referendum to remain in it after being lied to about the long terms aims of the EEC, a trade bloc, to create a political union, by Wilson and Heath who knew full what the aims were. Never got a chance to alter the result like the Remainers think they should get after losing a referendum. 

2005 Labour got 355 seats from 35.2 % of the vote on a 62.4% turnout. 2015 Tories got 331 seats from 36.9% of the vote on a 661% turnout. Left wing fannies moan the second one is sooooo unfair and we need electoral reform. But didn't utter a peep,about the first one. 

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Hulltim8 City AFC

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#8
19/03/2019 at 16:30

Quote Quote by candw on 19/03/2019 at 15:30
Rees-Mogg and Corbyn are hardly pushing the same thing, are they? And Corbyn hasn't already made £7 million out of Brexit "problems".

Farage is a total charlatan and cunt. He attended 1 meeting out of 42 as a Fisheries committee member and was in the building but didn't vote on the 3 proposals to fix problems with the fishing policy. A salary, a pension and a fucking embarrassment to my country.


We have a Remainer in power and a Remainer leading the opposition. Hardly surprising it hasn't gone well. 

2005 Labour got 355 seats from 35.2 % of the vote on a 62.4% turnout. 2015 Tories got 331 seats from 36.9% of the vote on a 661% turnout. Left wing fannies moan the second one is sooooo unfair and we need electoral reform. But didn't utter a peep,about the first one. 

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TedLloyd

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#9
19/03/2019 at 18:48

Quote Quote by candw on 19/03/2019 at 15:30
Rees-Mogg and Corbyn are hardly pushing the same thing,
Farage is a total charlatan and cunt. A salary, a pension and a fucking embarrassment to my country.


I don't think Rees-Mogg is a cunt, though he's not a big player in this, Corbyn is a complete cunt and Farage can be a cunt but when he confronts bigger cunts in the European Parliament its worthy cuntery.

A lot of cabbages thrown at our MP's but what are the EU conceeding in negotiations, fuck all and they'll put a price on a delay. Best to crash out next week and spend the next year negotiating a trade deal, ditch May and give PM to Leadsom as Boris or Gove are too unpopular.  

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theotherphantom

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#10
19/03/2019 at 18:52

Corbyn's a remainer? Only because his party wants him to be.

Anyway, I go with Tony Benn's position. The TWO exit will do me.

Or waiting another ten years till the whole house of cards collapses. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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TedLloyd

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#11
19/03/2019 at 19:03

Very few free thinkers like Benn amongst the Labour MP's TOP, they all seem to want soft brexit or remain which is not what most of their voters want. Corbyn just plays for a General Election all the time which he wont win if the Independent Group field candidates.  

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essexgull

8980 posts
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#12
19/03/2019 at 19:27

What concessions do the EU have to give? The UK voted to leave, which they can with the May Deal, but they have to fulfil international obligations... The same as any business or political deal. The compromise that Leavers should be mature enough to realise is that any divorce is expensive but it's worth it in the long run.

I can't see how no deal is ever a good thing. The minority government can't agree on anything, how will they agree on future trade deals, where time is the essence before the economy falters.

The May deal is the safest and surest way to Brexit. Demands should be made why MPs have not voted for it.


ESSEX GULL  

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Obadiah

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#13
19/03/2019 at 22:42

Quote Quote by essexgull on 19/03/2019 at 19:27


The May deal is the safest and surest way to Brexit. Demands should be made why MPs have not voted for it.

ESSEX GULL


They didn't vote for it because its a bad deal. I can't really see why any MP could be expected to vote for it. 

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theotherphantom

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#14
19/03/2019 at 23:01

Quote Quote by essexgull on 19/03/2019 at 19:27
What concessions do the EU have to give? The UK voted to leave, which they can with the May Deal, but they have to fulfil international obligations... The same as any business or political deal. The compromise that Leavers should be mature enough to realise is that any divorce is expensive but it's worth it in the long run.

I can't see how no deal is ever a good thing. The minority government can't agree on anything, how will they agree on future trade deals, where time is the essence before the economy falters.

The May deal is the safest and surest way to Brexit. Demands should be made why MPs have not voted for it.


ESSEX GULL


The No Deal deal would have been under WTO rules. It looked a whole load better to me than May's assorted appeasements. I reckon the May deal hasn't been getting support due to 75%/83% of MPs being remainers and wanting another referendum under the EU's if-they-get-it-wrong-make-them-vote-again -and-again-and-abloodygain-till-they-get- it-right law, which has previously squashed the will to live in several EU states.

Anyway, the EU authoritarians have pushed and pushed and pushed, and finally pushed that bit too far, and the natives don't like it. The EU is on its last legs and I, for one, will not be sorry when its knees give out and it keels to the floor and dies. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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essexgull

8980 posts
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#15
20/03/2019 at 10:01

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 19/03/2019 at 22:42


They didn't vote for it because its a bad deal. I can't really see why any MP could be expected to vote for it.


Because it is the only deal on the table that allows the UK to leave the EU safely and in the time frame that the UK determined.


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candw

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#16
20/03/2019 at 10:27

Quote Quote by TedLloyd on 19/03/2019 at 19:03
Very few free thinkers like Benn amongst the Labour MP's TOP, they all seem to want soft brexit or remain which is not what most of their voters want. Corbyn just plays for a General Election all the time which he wont win if the Independent Group field candidates.


"Most of their voters want a hard Brexit?" You can quote your reference for this statement?

TIG candidates were elected on Labour's manifesto and with the help of dedicated Labour workers. They weren't elected for their intrinsic worth. They are charlatans.

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Obadiah

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#17
20/03/2019 at 14:50

Quote Quote by essexgull on 20/03/2019 at 10:01


Because it is the only deal on the table that allows the UK to leave the EU safely and in the time frame that the UK determined.

ESSEX GULL



It may be the only deal May has given parliament but it isn't the only option open to MPs. Why should they accept a bad deal when they could revoke Article 50, get rid of May and start again?  

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essexgull

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#18
20/03/2019 at 17:47

It's true that there was an option to revoke article 50. I doubt it will happen.There is zero chance that if it is revoked, then issued again, that any deal will be better. The back-stop on Ireland cannot change. It is her deal or no-deal.

Best and most realistic outcome as it stands, I think, is that her deal is passed, she resigns, probably Javid replaces her and Brexit negotiations continue on a calmer level.


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Obadiah

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#19
20/03/2019 at 21:36

Quote Quote by essexgull on 20/03/2019 at 17:47
It's true that there was an option to revoke article 50. I doubt it will happen.There is zero chance that if it is revoked, then issued again, that any deal will be better. The back-stop on Ireland cannot change. It is her deal or no-deal.

Best and most realistic outcome as it stands, I think, is that her deal is passed, she resigns, probably Javid replaces her and Brexit negotiations continue on a calmer level.


ESSEX GULL


The politics of Northern Ireland will get worse if the 1 million protestants are forced into a united Ireland by Sinn Fein, the EU and the British Tory government.

It seems that every time she opens her mouth she digs the hole a lot bigger. Next week will be interesting.  

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essexgull

8980 posts
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#20
21/03/2019 at 16:30

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 20/03/2019 at 21:36


The politics of Northern Ireland will get worse if the 1 million protestants are forced into a united Ireland by Sinn Fein, the EU and the British Tory government.

It seems that every time she opens her mouth she digs the hole a lot bigger. Next week will be interesting.


I can't speak for protestants in NI. I imagine these days, that many would prefer to be part of Ireland in the EU anyway. Perhaps when they realise the state of the Irish health service, they'll regret it though.

I think her speech was fair. MPs, who don't have a clue about the subject, have been jettisoning the UK's chance of leaving the UK with a deal.

I notice all those who said that the German automotive industry and French wineries would ensure a great deal, have gone very quiet.

ESSEX GULL  

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Obadiah

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#21
21/03/2019 at 19:20

Quote Quote by essexgull on 21/03/2019 at 16:30


I can't speak for protestants in NI. I imagine these days, that many would prefer to be part of Ireland in the EU anyway. Perhaps when they realise the state of the Irish health service, they'll regret it though.

I think her speech was fair. MPs, who don't have a clue about the subject, have been jettisoning the UK's chance of leaving the UK with a deal.

I notice all those who said that the German automotive industry and French wineries would ensure a great deal, have gone very quiet.

ESSEX GULL


Theresa May jettisoned the UK's chances of leaving with a deal by saying its my way and only my way. She tried to square the circle that is the Tory Party and her only tactic now is fear of leaving without a deal.

There is a majority in parliament for a closer relationship with the EU but May hasn't allowed that option to be put because she knows it would split the Tory Party. Its still possible that the UK will end up with a Norway style arrangement if May's plan is voted down next week.

The deal is bad which is why May wants it to be the only one on the table. Unfortunately she has no control over her Party and hasn't offered any carrots for the Blairites in the Labour Party to get them to back her.

Fear is never a good tactic, all it ever leaves is a bitter taste. Interesting times.

 

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NationalTiger

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#22
23/03/2019 at 07:53

Why do MPs keep voting down May's orderly Brexit deal?

One political commentator on breakfast telly put it in layman's terms to the British public while munching their cornflakes.

"If you're house is valued at £250,000 and you were offered £100,000 - would you sell it?

When the exact same offer arrives a second and then a third time, you still wouldn't sell your house, would you?

If you keep asking the same question, you'll get the same answer."


My limited understanding is; May has provided a plan to WITHDRAW from the EU and then negotiate the finer points, thereafter, right? But I accept I could be wrong about that. Please put me right if necessary.

I maintain, no deal is better than a bad deal. Probably. But as I've said all along, I still reckon there's an 11th hour exit in there somewhere. I do admit, it's looking less and likely, though. 

Now then... 

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TedLloyd

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#23
23/03/2019 at 10:27

Yes, May's withdrawal agreement means we continue to pay £39B over 2 years as a divorce bill then we are out.

The hard brexit isn't going to happen but in theory we would have stopped payments from next month.

A Norway deal would mean continuing payments forever without any representation.

So I conclude the best our weak Parliament will now offer is an even softer deal than May's because her government can't unite behind a compromise and its going cross party, with payments eventually stopping after a 2-4 year? timespan narrowly avoiding the even shitter deal Norway has. What was Canada plus plus anyone? Fuck a second referendum or remaining though. May out.
 

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essexgull

8980 posts
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#24
23/03/2019 at 15:05

Quote Quote by NationalTiger on 23/03/2019 at 07:53
Why do MPs keep voting down May's orderly Brexit deal?

One political commentator on breakfast telly put it in layman's terms to the British public while munching their cornflakes.

"If you're house is valued at £250,000 and you were offered £100,000 - would you sell it?

When the exact same offer arrives a second and then a third time, you still wouldn't sell your house, would you?

If you keep asking the same question, you'll get the same answer."


My limited understanding is; May has provided a plan to WITHDRAW from the EU and then negotiate the finer points, thereafter, right? But I accept I could be wrong about that. Please put me right if necessary.

I maintain, no deal is better than a bad deal. Probably. But as I've said all along, I still reckon there's an 11th hour exit in there somewhere. I do admit, it's looking less and likely, though.


Yes, just a withdrawal deal - not actual trade, customs, regulatory etc. The deal essentially just maintains that a legal framework is maintained until those points are negotiated. And as Ted correctly points out, involves maintaining payments in line with international obligations. If you want to move out your house, you still have to pay the mortgage on it until it has sold. The reason for this is that the UK has a £250 billion+ annual trade relationship with the EU, if the UK decides to default on the £39 billion over 4 years that it has already agreed to, via the membership of the EU, then this trade relationship could reduce far more than the amount to be paid. Countries and businesses tend to trade less with customers and sellers who have broken and defaulted on previous deals.



ESSEX GULL

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NationalTiger

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#26
24/03/2019 at 09:15

I don't expect our country to default on payment whether it's 2-4 years or otherwise. There is no reason to.

I'm with Ted on this.

Absolutely no to remaining or a second referendum.

Either happens and democracy is dead in the UK. 

Now then... 

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essexgull

8980 posts
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#27
24/03/2019 at 09:42

Well that is the argument for no deal, to renege on these payments as a protest.

I think the likely eventual outcome is a soft Brexit, which is what many, not all, leavers would have voted for - leaving the EU in name, with minimal repercussions, changes and disadvantages to their lives.


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candw

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#28
24/03/2019 at 11:36

As long as we no longer have to have those Poles, everyone will be happy! Eh?

Democracy would be dead if, 3 years after a vote, and following 3 years of shit, people were asked "Did you really vote for this?"

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theotherphantom

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#29
24/03/2019 at 22:34

The whole thing will be in a dusty putrid pile on a pavement in Brussells before the 2020s are over. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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essexgull

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#30
25/03/2019 at 10:12

Quote Quote by theotherphantom on 24/03/2019 at 22:34
The whole thing will be in a dusty putrid pile on a pavement in Brussells before the 2020s are over.


It's a stupid argument. Every thing comes to an end eventually, but that doesn't mean that it's not necessarily the best option at this present time. As it stands, it looks like the untied kingdom will be over before the EU.


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theotherphantom

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#31
26/03/2019 at 23:02

Quote Quote by candw on 24/03/2019 at 11:36
As long as we no longer have to have those Poles, everyone will be happy! Eh?

Democracy would be dead if, 3 years after a vote, and following 3 years of shit, people were asked "Did you really vote for this?"


The first 28 years of my life was spent living next door to a Polish Jewish couple who'd fled the Polish whatever-it-was in 1908, so all that was just normal and unremarkable. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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