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Hulltim8 City AFC

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#16
19/04/2018 at 22:58

Quote Quote by candw on 19/04/2018 at 21:48
You mean there are people who don't know hating a person because of their skin colour is irrational?

As for the gender thing, if everyone was addressed as Comrade there would be no need for the shit that goes on.

Yes, there was never any shit going on in places where they called each other comrade. Bar the odd million or 50 million deaths of course...

What colour skin does a Jew have? There is a lot of irrational hatred of them. Especially amongst friends and supporters of Jezza. 

2005 Labour got 355 seats from 35.2 % of the vote on a 62.4% turnout. 2015 Tories got 331 seats from 36.9% of the vote on a 661% turnout. Left wing fannies moan the second one is sooooo unfair and we need electoral reform. But didn't utter a peep,about the first one. 

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candw

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#17
20/04/2018 at 08:10

That was a joke, you dim twat! Never mind.

Jews are brownish as they are all from a ME country and have lived there for around 3000 years, surely?  

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Obadiah

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#18
20/04/2018 at 09:35

Quote Quote by Hulltim8 City AFC on 19/04/2018 at 22:58

What colour skin does a Jew have? There is a lot of irrational hatred of them. Especially amongst friends and supporters of Jezza.


Which friends and supporters of Corbyn are you talking about?

Do you really think Livingston's comments were anti-semetic?

Do you really think opposition to the Israeli government is the same as being anti-semetic?


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theotherphantom

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#19
23/04/2018 at 05:57

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 18/04/2018 at 09:06


Did the people you regularly post videos of go to Texas to defend the right of free speech for school students?


I have no idea. However, those school students were not denied the right to protest outside of school hours. It's like companies that object to people carrying out political exercises while they are being paid to work.

As a response to something you mentioned earlier or elsewhere, most of those I've posted videos by, I have seen videos of most them trying to engage with protesters who refuse to debate or give any kind of coherent reasons for their actions of shutting down lectures and debates. So, yes, they are support the free speech rights of those with other views. As do I. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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theotherphantom

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#20
23/04/2018 at 06:05

This is just over 11 minutes long and - I hope - succinctly summarises the dilemma I have at the moment (and have had for the last few months). It does not reach a conclusion. The presenter is skilled at finding and presenting pertinent arguments and debunking arguments, but he has not made his mind up. The two people debating the point both believed themselves to be of the left but find themselves at odds with people with incoherent and contradictory views who also claim to be on the left. This problem appears to be relatively new and I thought I'd resolved it by calling on the extra axis presented by PoliticalCompass, ie, that the ones I disagree with are authoritarians while I am not; they and I represent the "two different lefts" which one of the speakers mentions. It might help present my dilemma far better than I've managed.




>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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Obadiah

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#21
23/04/2018 at 11:10

TOM that was interesting but the question isn't new, its been around for over 100 years, maybe longer. The debate is similar those that took place during the 1980s, for example around the policies of the Greater London Council, whether a chairman was a chair or chairperson and equal opportunities. Going further back you had the differences between the various Communist Parties and the Social Democratic Parties.

The Life of Brain was funny because it had a big element of truth in it.

All your videos concentrate on student politics which is not representative of the left. Yes, the left includes students but its main forces in Britain are in the unions and the Labour Party. Far from eating itself the left is growing and growing substantially compared to the 1990s and 2000s.

Of the two speakers Brendan is closest to my views. The other speaker seems to be upset that he's no longer considered a left. There are many people in history who moved to the right but still wanted to be seen as on the left.

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theotherphantom

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#22
24/04/2018 at 00:32

Count Dankula fined £800 for "breaking" subjective law.



>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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theotherphantom

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#23
24/04/2018 at 03:25

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 23/04/2018 at 11:10
TOM that was interesting but the question isn't new, its been around for over 100 years, maybe longer. The debate is similar those that took place during the 1980s, for example around the policies of the Greater London Council, whether a chairman was a chair or chairperson and equal opportunities. Going further back you had the differences between the various Communist Parties and the Social Democratic Parties.


I was wondering whether it was normal background noise. Perhaps it feels amplified due to the internet.

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 23/04/2018 at 11:10

The Life of Brain was funny because it had a big element of truth in it.

All your videos concentrate on student politics which is not representative of the left. Yes, the left includes students but its main forces in Britain are in the unions and the Labour Party. Far from eating itself the left is growing and growing substantially compared to the 1990s and 2000s.


I don't mind the left growing (as long as it's not the authoritarian sections), but I do mind the growth of what the second speaker, Brendon, described, which he called "anti-enlightenment" attitudes. That is the main thing that bothers me. Perhaps most students grow out of it. Perhaps the realities of trying to earn a living and leaving the protected spaces dish out the kind of firm thwack to the head that brings realisation and self-awareness to the deluded.

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 23/04/2018 at 11:10
Of the two speakers Brendan is closest to my views. The other speaker seems to be upset that he's no longer considered a left. There are many people in history who moved to the right but still wanted to be seen as on the left.


There's a quote I saw recently - can't remember who said it - about not fully understanding one's own position without seeking the opinions of those with different opinions. That's partly why I watched some of these videos from people further right than I consider myself to be. It was disturbing to get coherence from the right but not from the left. On the other hand, I didn't watch anything far right, so maybe I'm not comparing the same thing. But I have spoken recently with my persuasive friend, who is undoubtedly much further left than I am (and possibly more libertarian, handily side-stepping the authoritarian problem). But there are people on the far left who will instantly label anyone who disagrees with them as far right, even if those people are left of centre. As for myself, I've mostly viewed myself as a bit left of centre, rather than specifically left (but I want the Tories out ASAP before the NHS is finally killed). Brett Weinstein's opinions may well have never shifted. I was going to disagree about whether it is for other people to "consider" one's place left or right, but on second and third thoughts, I'm sure there are people who think their views put them in one place when they actually don't. There are people who think Corbyn is a common oik and would agree with 99% of his policies, but vote Tory because he looks scruffy and the Telegraph or Sun says he eats babies.

Anyway, PoliticalCompass puts me in the same place, so I'm not worried, just reminded that there are evil monsters at all far edges. It's just sometimes there stupidness gets laws and things altered. for the worse I'm afraid Reg was right about many things, not least that immigrants and immigrant culture get preferential status from the law. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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candw

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#24
24/04/2018 at 08:43

And no centrist monsters? At least you are saying that the current Tory government is Far Right and evil. Or are you saying that only Corbyn's Labour does evil like the whole of the Establishment? 

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Obadiah

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#25
24/04/2018 at 10:11

TOM I pretty certain every Native American in Canada would agree with you and Reg.

I'm not sure if the Windrush generation would agree with you though, nor those who came to the UK with their families fleeing Nazi persecution. 

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theotherphantom

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#26
25/04/2018 at 04:31

Quote Quote by candw on 24/04/2018 at 08:43
And no centrist monsters? At least you are saying that the current Tory government is Far Right and evil. Or are you saying that only Corbyn's Labour does evil like the whole of the Establishment?


The friend I mentioned above tells me his biggest nightmares concern a group of international right wing zillionaires that manipulate the world for their own benefit, creating wars and conflict which they can profit from, irrespective of their death and misery their actions cause. I've located a YouTube poster who appears to explain this rationally and coherently, and explains why the US is always waist-deep in Middle East unrest, what their ultimate aims are, who they're doing it for, and which Middle East countries are in their way and why.

The prevailing neoliberal financial model was explained by Owen Jones in his book The Establishment. I want an end to it. The Tories will not end it, nor will the US democrats under Clinton. Whether Trump is mired in it, I have no idea. The only possible way out of it that I could see in the near future was for a Corbyn government over here and a Trump one over there, but maybe that was a forlorn hope. The far right in the US, in terms of white nationalists appear to be toothless. People such as George Soros have attempted to create the impression of imminent/ongoing race wars in the US, again for his own gain (he's a psychopath who is untroubled by "colateral damage" from his machinations). He's funding the extreme left over there, and, I have no doubt, funding some to act the role of the extreme right (most of the white supremacists over there, if indeed there are any to be found in any numbers, have six fingers on each hand and have IQs lower than their front doors).

I hope Corbyn's Labour repels the evil factions from the left. I'm torn between the long-held notion that they don't want Labour to be in power and the suspicion that they right-wing press of Merde-och is ballooning their significance to scare off the electorate. The more I think about it, the more I think both contain elelements of truth, and that is bad for the Labour party.

Evil lurks at both extremes. Is there evil in the centre? I don't know.

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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theotherphantom

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#27
25/04/2018 at 04:59

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 24/04/2018 at 10:11
TOM I pretty certain every Native American in Canada would agree with you and Reg.

I'm not sure if the Windrush generation would agree with you though, nor those who came to the UK with their families fleeing Nazi persecution.


Both groups have sounds reasons for coming and I have no problem with either. As I told EssexGull elsewhere, I signed a petition against the deportation of the Windrush generations a couple of weeks back, a little before it blew up. I have no problem with genuine refugees, and I'm aware that the Windrush immigrants were invited here. In 1998 I attended a 50th anniversary Windrush celebration event at Sheffield City Hall, which was very interesting.

Perhaps some will compare the mutterings of protest at the times of Windrush arrivals and others over the years (IIRC, there was an influx of Asians in the early 1970 (related to Amin?????)) and their eventually assimilation (more or less) with what may or may not happen with the mass immigration from North Africa into Europe over the last few years. Countries such as Germany and Sweden appear to be encountering problems, whether they admit or not. I've seen suggestions that this mass immigration is part of the plan of whoever the group controlling world events is to destabilise Europe. I have no idea whether this holds water.

I've seen conflicting predictions concening the religion of peace. Some who have left it suggest that many adherents that have arrived in Europe are abandoning it, not least because they believe they have escaped from a jurisdiction likely to hand out the standard punishment for apostasy, and that that punishment may be the main reason or one of the main reasons behind its growth. On the other hand, I've read predictions that suggest that in cities and countries around the world, many with populations of mainly European descent will find those of such descent becoming a minority. This appears to be already the case in some US cities, and looks like it's having disastrous consequences. On another tack, it's been suggested that parallels between religions such as Judaism and Christianity on one hand and Islam on other fail because the former are based on the teachings of peaceful and the latter was written as an instruction book by a war lord. And a very successful one at that. Perhaps time will makes things more clear. Islam has a definite bloody schism, not unlike the Christian bloody schism. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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exiled CITY AFC

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#28
25/04/2018 at 10:29

I have seen the left morph in my lifetime from a working class movement based on the principles of what made me join the union movement to a pastiche based on the same espoused principles but spoken by people who have never done a shift of manual labour in their lives. I still believe that politics in the UK is dominated by a class system based on educational achievements, establishments attended and jobs. Whether on the left or right most are utter buffoons when it comes to real world problems and their resolutions. I cannot take Boris Johnson nor Diane Abbott seriously at all. It seems the only way you can get working class people involved in TV debate is if they take up comedy or pay the entry fee by getting a surprising degree from somewhere a TV producer considers a good school. Meanwhile you have commentators like Owen Jones who blows in the wind or peter Hitchens who would pray for the wind to stop. It’s utterly bizarre and so like many being unable to relate to them all I tune out. I have enjoyed new long form sources like Joe Rogan and Dave Rubin and the various characters that bear well to long form enquiry get my attention. I watched the original debate and concluded that the left IS eating something because it is growing but concluded it has eat the kids and shit them out exactly as Brendan suggests they are. The old working class has stopped having kids and when they do they are primarily concerned about getting them JOBS. The middle class left has played out its victimless societies dreams on their kids, starting in education and now infecting the public sector and corporate life. So the left is growing but half of it don’t even know why they are left now and when questioned even gently they are not left at all. The obsession with identity politics is to ensure they don’t get enlightened any time soon. It’s a confidence trick for sure but the crash will be brutal when they all wake up or in the modern vernacular get ‘red-pilled’.

Class is the issue, equality of opportunity the goal, equality of outcome the hell to avoid.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#29
25/04/2018 at 11:36

What the hell is a "martial arts color commentator"?

...people who have never done a shift of manual labour in their lives...

Do you consider that to be a drawback? They've probably 'done their garden' and 'decorated their house'. That's all you need to know about manual labour. It isn't a mystery or a science. A politician doesn't need to know what it's like to do each job, he needs to know how to legislate for decent working conditions devoid of exploitation, a wage on which at least half a family can live and a safe environment so they can come home still with two legs at the end of a shift.

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exiled CITY AFC

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#30
25/04/2018 at 13:47

Quote Quote by candw on 25/04/2018 at 11:36
What the hell is a "martial arts color commentator"?

...people who have never done a shift of manual labour in their lives...

Do you consider that to be a drawback? They've probably 'done their garden' and 'decorated their house'. That's all you need to know about manual labour. It isn't a mystery or a science.


Yes and you thankfully spelled out exactly why.

Unless you have done hourly paid manual work day after day week after week (skilled or unskilled) you haven’t got a clue about what it means to be working class nor the nature of such work.

That’s the essence of the problem of middle class tossers politicking on behalf of the working class or whatever ‘oppressed minority du jour’ it happens to be.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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