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Hull City Forum >> CI Football Plus >> Bad banking again... Carillion
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candw

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26505 posts
First used 09/01/17

#16
16/01/2018 at 15:15

CARILLI ON CONNING

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exiled CITY AFC

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#17
17/01/2018 at 09:26

Shit run public sector
Shit run private sector
Shit run government barely keeping it together

What’s the common denominator here?

UK management running software 2.0 when rest of developed world is using 4.0 

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#18
17/01/2018 at 12:51

But how would you train managers in UK up to Management 4.0 level? How do they do it on the.World? 

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exiled CITY AFC

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#19
18/01/2018 at 00:13

They make them work on the shop floor and truly understand what the company actually does to add value rather than take a few weeks off to do an MBA in spreadsheet and balance sheet Gymnastics. Real leadership creates and is only interested in real improvement.

We have to wise up as a nation to the faking it that is almost an epidemic in public and private sector.

Example - east coast mainline - ‘running at a profit by public sector’. - really?

New regime arrives and finds out no capital spent in years.

Teresa May talks tough over Brexit negotiations comes back obviously unable to negotiate for shit

Carillion, say no more

Civil servants filling in millions of forms and tests to get the right supplier - still goes bust

It seems that in British business schools are still teaching the notion that looking good is more important than being good and if you don’t know how to do something say fuck all and see how long you can get away with it...

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#20
18/01/2018 at 11:10

First, thank you for bothering to reply. It is almost as if a "Do not resuscitate" notice has been placed on this board.

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 18/01/2018 at 00:13
First, thank you for bothering to reply. It is almost as if a "Do not resuscitate" notice has been placed on this board.

They make them work on the shop floor and truly understand what the company actually does to add value rather than take a few weeks off to do an MBA in spreadsheet and balance sheet Gymnastics. Real leadership creates and is only interested in real improvement.

If the company is well run that might work. If badly run it would only make the trainee manager wish to overthrow the current management.

We have to wise up as a nation to the faking it that is almost an epidemic in public and private sector.

Example - east coast mainline - ‘running at a profit by public sector’. - really? New regime arrives and finds out no capital spent in years.

In its five years as East Coast, the state-run firm returned a little more than £1bn in premiums, as well as several million in profits, to the Treasury. Detailed financial analysis from the Office of Rail Regulation shows it was one of two firms to make a net contribution to government coffers over the last two years, paying in more than it received in subsidy or indirect grants, along with Southwest Trains (run by Stagecoach).

Teresa May talks tough over Brexit negotiations comes back obviously unable to negotiate for shit.

The very thought that this lot will negotiate trade agreements from the ground floor up is why many feel we are truly shafted as a nation. Only those with a visceral hatred of foreigners couldn't care less about our incompetence.

Carillion, say no more

There's an easy out for a bunch of fucking Charlatans! Bunged £billions, screwed workers, pensioners, their supply chain and, of course, us. Shareholders and management have done OK.

Civil servants filling in millions of forms and tests to get the right supplier - still goes bust

Not sure what you mean here. The government outsourced this because Civil Servants did not have the required skills to do it themselves. But you blame them?

It seems that in British business schools are still teaching the notion that looking good is more important than being good and if you don’t know how to do something say fuck all and see how long you can get away with it...

That is, of course, a measure of your deep cynicism and is not a constructive criticism at all. Or could we learn from foreign business schools? New managers can't learn from the old as the old are the ones who have fucked up already, no doubt squashing any initiative from new recruits.
 

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essexgull

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First used 12/01/17

#21
18/01/2018 at 18:23

Point of order to your post, candw - Shareholders haven't done ok, they've lost their investment. I'm guessing that the bulk of shares were held by banks and pension funds - who would have reinvested any dividends they received prior to 2017 anyway. So, indirectly, the general public have been screwed as well. The UK taxpayer will most likely have to pay up for the Carillion pension fund as well.

Directors would most likely have had the majority of their bonuses in shares as well, which would have had a time limit on when they could sell up, so even they have lost.

The only actors in the affair who haven't lost will have been the hedge funds and speculators shorting the stock the last 2 years, who have now cleaned up, courtesy of years of appalling management.



ESSEX GULL

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candw

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#22
18/01/2018 at 21:18

OK, gull, thanks for that.

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aucklandtiger

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#23
19/01/2018 at 09:13

Boys, if you want a government bail out to get ‘outraged’ about, then check out Branson’s East Coast Railway. Carillon’s anonymous directors will go to the wall along with thousands of decent feller’s jobs. Meanwhile slippery Richard, anti brexit pin up cunt, gets a two billion get out of jail card. Such cunts are on borrowed time, look at the States!

MCGA 

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exiled CITY AFC

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#24
20/01/2018 at 00:53

Quote Quote by essexgull on 18/01/2018 at 18:23
Point of order to your post, candw - Shareholders haven't done ok, they've lost their investment. I'm guessing that the bulk of shares were held by banks and pension funds - who would have reinvested any dividends they received prior to 2017 anyway. So, indirectly, the general public have been screwed as well. The UK taxpayer will most likely have to pay up for the Carillion pension fund as well.

Directors would most likely have had the majority of their bonuses in shares as well, which would have had a time limit on when they could sell up, so even they have lost.

The only actors in the affair who haven't lost will have been the hedge funds and speculators shorting the stock the last 2 years, who have now cleaned up, courtesy of years of appalling management.

ESSEX GULL


Wasting your time Gull he doesn’t even understand basic economics - probably due to getting reports from the business blind corporation (BBC).

The East Coast mainline turned a profit because it deferred massive sums required for capital expenditures. Known as putting lipstick on the pig it is a common ploy to make things look hunky dory to a prospective new owner. Anyone who travelled on it wasn’t fooled though. The trains, track and stations were utter shit holes.

I read the perfect analysis of the ‘nowtsourcing’ debacle yesterday. Unable to run stuff themselves, civil servants under both shades of government outsourced it and then insisted on layers and layers of the very mountain of paperwork and management that had proven so useless in the first place. Those letting the contracts had made a handful of private sector companies look and behave just like the public sector.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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Obadiah

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#25
20/01/2018 at 10:04

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 20/01/2018 at 00:53


Wasting your time Gull he doesn’t even understand basic economics - probably due to getting reports from the business blind corporation (BBC).

The East Coast mainline turned a profit because it deferred massive sums required for capital expenditures. Known as putting lipstick on the pig it is a common ploy to make things look hunky dory to a prospective new owner. Anyone who travelled on it wasn’t fooled though. The trains, track and stations were utter shit holes.

I read the perfect analysis of the ‘nowtsourcing’ debacle yesterday. Unable to run stuff themselves, civil servants under both shades of government outsourced it and then insisted on layers and layers of the very mountain of paperwork and management that had proven so useless in the first place. Those letting the contracts had made a handful of private sector companies look and behave just like the public sector.


Civil Servants have always been able to run stuff themselves. Usually without mountains of paperwork. However, contracting out is an easy way of giving your mates lots and lots of taxpayers' money. It saves them having to compete in the real world with the Japanese, the Koreans, the French or the Germans.

One consequence is the public sector has increasingly come to look like the worst of British industry not the other way around.

The publicly owned East Coast line couldn't afford to renovate the stations and rolling stock so rather than borrow more money they made do with what they had. Virgin and Stagecoach can't afford to do it either so the Tories have allowed them to cut short the contract.
25 posts. < 1 2 > Show 15 30
Hull City Forum >> CI Football Plus >> Bad banking again... Carillion