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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#1
14/01/2018 at 14:29

On the verge of going bust. Already driven many of it's suppliers and joint venture partners into bankruptcy, due to squeezing costs and not paying bills.

Was able to borrow far more than it's assets - one third/ £1.5 billion more, based purely on 'good will' lending.

Most likely because the company deals mainly with government contracts, so lenders believe there was a good chance of government/tax payer bailout if it all went tits up, as it has now.

Now, lenders/banks are demanding that the government bails the company out.

Now we'll see if the tail is wagging the dog, 2008 has been forgotten and very few changes to the banking system have been made.

Interesting events.


ESSEX GULL  

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#2
14/01/2018 at 14:37

And more interesting is why the department of transport have granted them £350 million of contracts for national rail, despite continuous profit warnings, dividends being suspended, suppliers complaining to watchdogs, credit terms being lengthened and cash flow problems resulting in debts unpaid...

It should be stories like this that bring governments down due to corruption, incompetency and lack of due diligence.

Anyway, back to Trump's naughty word..


ESSEX GULL  

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candw

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26505 posts
First used 09/01/17

#3
14/01/2018 at 15:39

Tories will help them out. Don't forget the mantra - socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor. You can bung the Proddies £1.5 billion for your job but nothing to stop your grannies dying in the corridor after a 4 hour wait for an ambulance.

Good job we are a placid, bread and circuses population.  

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#4
14/01/2018 at 15:45

We'll see.. The main lender to Carillion is RBS - so either way, the British public get rodded. Other main lenders of the 14 bank consortium and 11 pension funds invested are Lloyds, Barclays, John Lewis and HSBC...

You would have thought that less than a decade after a bad banking crash, they'd have learned.

Same old rubbish, same old management (lack of), same old culpability, same old the majority of the UK public caring more about a tweet. Unbelievable. In an ordinary world, Grayling would have to resign.


ESSEX GULL  

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candw

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26505 posts
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#5
14/01/2018 at 17:32

I don't wish to start a new thread, or spoil this one, but someone is projecting SHITHOLE on a Trump hotel and I just wanted to mention it. 

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#6
14/01/2018 at 17:43

Sick of the autistic screeching over every stupid thing he says. Not sure why those who claim to hate him so much hang on to every word he allegedly says or doesn't say. Another three years of this, at least. Not one of his voters or supporters gives a monkey's chuff if he calls Pakistan a shithole, so wittering on about it is pointless.

US economy has gained 7.8 trillion dollars since he won the title and unemployment at a 40 year low, if you accept those figures. His protectionist policies have resulted in the four main US car producers either moving a lot of production back to the US or changing plans to produce in Mexico. Whatever you think of him, he's doing what he promised his voters regarding industry. Just hope that he bans Asian honey altogether next and allows US honey prices to rise as the market dictates. More people need to read "The art of not giving a f" and stop focusing on him supposedly destroying their lives. There's plenty more wrongs out there far more hidden than Trump and his lack of care about diplomatic language.



ESSEX GULL 

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
First used 11/01/17

#7
14/01/2018 at 17:53


Well said Gull - trump doing exactly what he said he would.

The left are knicker-wettingly obsessed by him.

Lessons haven’t been learned at all from 2008 there was no moral hazard so the banking elite didn’t learn a thing.

We don’t have either system we have a mix of everything but.

crony capitalism and pseudo socialism.

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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26505 posts
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#8
14/01/2018 at 19:11

Yep, I'm sure your figures are spot on.

Where did the $7.8 trillion come from? That's a lot of money.

The stories you tell are not the stories everyone tells. Your story has no downside. 

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candw

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26505 posts
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#9
14/01/2018 at 19:16

It's odd, but in UK it's the right wittering about Corbyn.

He's done what he said, Give loads to the rich and undo anything Obama did. And Welch millions from the US government.

And the patriotic cunt doesn't even know the words to his own anthem.  

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#10
14/01/2018 at 19:35

The value of US companies has risen ca. 30% over Trump's presidency so far... Around 7.8 trillion dollars.

This is opposite to what many economists predicted and warned about if he won.

I haven't disputed the downsides, I wrote that he has done what he said he would to his voter base.


ESSEX GULL


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candw

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26505 posts
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#11
14/01/2018 at 19:46

Is that an indicator of the strength of the economy? And economists didn't see the Big Crash, so why take notice of them? 

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#12
14/01/2018 at 20:38

Certainly an indicator.

Fair point.

ESSEX GULL  

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candw

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26505 posts
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#13
15/01/2018 at 12:04

Start a limited liability company, keep all the profit you make, we'll make sure the liability is the tax payers if it goes tits up. 

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#14
15/01/2018 at 18:38

In the US, the directors would be up on criminal charges for financial mismanagement. The UK will probably just take away any honours bestowed.

Plenty of councils need to answer why they've given them contracts either knowing or not K ow ING the financial problems they've been in for the last years.


ESSEX GULL  

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aucklandtiger

118 posts
First used 05/02/17

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Hull City

#15
16/01/2018 at 05:00

Quote Quote by essexgull on 15/01/2018 at 18:38
In the US, the directors would be up on criminal charges for financial mismanagement. The UK will probably just take away any honours bestowed.

Plenty of councils need to answer why they've given them contracts either knowing or not K ow ING the financial problems they've been in for the last years.


ESSEX GULL


Most unlikely that any council would turn down a Carillion tender on the basis of financial capability when they are #2 uk contractor. Tender documents only ask for financial references if a company is unknown to them or else a minnow.

How Tarmac goes from 400 mill in the bank and a full order book in the mid 90s to this mess is worthy of a book, but watch your back if you write it. And perhaps if they'd had the foresight to rename as 'Carillion Bank' then they might have even got their bail-out.  

MCGA 

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candw

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26505 posts
First used 09/01/17

#16
16/01/2018 at 15:15

CARILLI ON CONNING

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
First used 11/01/17

#17
17/01/2018 at 09:26

Shit run public sector
Shit run private sector
Shit run government barely keeping it together

What’s the common denominator here?

UK management running software 2.0 when rest of developed world is using 4.0 

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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26505 posts
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#18
17/01/2018 at 12:51

But how would you train managers in UK up to Management 4.0 level? How do they do it on the.World? 

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
First used 11/01/17

#19
18/01/2018 at 00:13

They make them work on the shop floor and truly understand what the company actually does to add value rather than take a few weeks off to do an MBA in spreadsheet and balance sheet Gymnastics. Real leadership creates and is only interested in real improvement.

We have to wise up as a nation to the faking it that is almost an epidemic in public and private sector.

Example - east coast mainline - ‘running at a profit by public sector’. - really?

New regime arrives and finds out no capital spent in years.

Teresa May talks tough over Brexit negotiations comes back obviously unable to negotiate for shit

Carillion, say no more

Civil servants filling in millions of forms and tests to get the right supplier - still goes bust

It seems that in British business schools are still teaching the notion that looking good is more important than being good and if you don’t know how to do something say fuck all and see how long you can get away with it...

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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26505 posts
First used 09/01/17

#20
18/01/2018 at 11:10

First, thank you for bothering to reply. It is almost as if a "Do not resuscitate" notice has been placed on this board.

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 18/01/2018 at 00:13
First, thank you for bothering to reply. It is almost as if a "Do not resuscitate" notice has been placed on this board.

They make them work on the shop floor and truly understand what the company actually does to add value rather than take a few weeks off to do an MBA in spreadsheet and balance sheet Gymnastics. Real leadership creates and is only interested in real improvement.

If the company is well run that might work. If badly run it would only make the trainee manager wish to overthrow the current management.

We have to wise up as a nation to the faking it that is almost an epidemic in public and private sector.

Example - east coast mainline - ‘running at a profit by public sector’. - really? New regime arrives and finds out no capital spent in years.

In its five years as East Coast, the state-run firm returned a little more than £1bn in premiums, as well as several million in profits, to the Treasury. Detailed financial analysis from the Office of Rail Regulation shows it was one of two firms to make a net contribution to government coffers over the last two years, paying in more than it received in subsidy or indirect grants, along with Southwest Trains (run by Stagecoach).

Teresa May talks tough over Brexit negotiations comes back obviously unable to negotiate for shit.

The very thought that this lot will negotiate trade agreements from the ground floor up is why many feel we are truly shafted as a nation. Only those with a visceral hatred of foreigners couldn't care less about our incompetence.

Carillion, say no more

There's an easy out for a bunch of fucking Charlatans! Bunged £billions, screwed workers, pensioners, their supply chain and, of course, us. Shareholders and management have done OK.

Civil servants filling in millions of forms and tests to get the right supplier - still goes bust

Not sure what you mean here. The government outsourced this because Civil Servants did not have the required skills to do it themselves. But you blame them?

It seems that in British business schools are still teaching the notion that looking good is more important than being good and if you don’t know how to do something say fuck all and see how long you can get away with it...

That is, of course, a measure of your deep cynicism and is not a constructive criticism at all. Or could we learn from foreign business schools? New managers can't learn from the old as the old are the ones who have fucked up already, no doubt squashing any initiative from new recruits.
 

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#21
18/01/2018 at 18:23

Point of order to your post, candw - Shareholders haven't done ok, they've lost their investment. I'm guessing that the bulk of shares were held by banks and pension funds - who would have reinvested any dividends they received prior to 2017 anyway. So, indirectly, the general public have been screwed as well. The UK taxpayer will most likely have to pay up for the Carillion pension fund as well.

Directors would most likely have had the majority of their bonuses in shares as well, which would have had a time limit on when they could sell up, so even they have lost.

The only actors in the affair who haven't lost will have been the hedge funds and speculators shorting the stock the last 2 years, who have now cleaned up, courtesy of years of appalling management.



ESSEX GULL

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candw

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26505 posts
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#22
18/01/2018 at 21:18

OK, gull, thanks for that.

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aucklandtiger

118 posts
First used 05/02/17

Group
Hull City

#23
19/01/2018 at 09:13

Boys, if you want a government bail out to get ‘outraged’ about, then check out Branson’s East Coast Railway. Carillon’s anonymous directors will go to the wall along with thousands of decent feller’s jobs. Meanwhile slippery Richard, anti brexit pin up cunt, gets a two billion get out of jail card. Such cunts are on borrowed time, look at the States!

MCGA 

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
First used 11/01/17

#24
20/01/2018 at 00:53

Quote Quote by essexgull on 18/01/2018 at 18:23
Point of order to your post, candw - Shareholders haven't done ok, they've lost their investment. I'm guessing that the bulk of shares were held by banks and pension funds - who would have reinvested any dividends they received prior to 2017 anyway. So, indirectly, the general public have been screwed as well. The UK taxpayer will most likely have to pay up for the Carillion pension fund as well.

Directors would most likely have had the majority of their bonuses in shares as well, which would have had a time limit on when they could sell up, so even they have lost.

The only actors in the affair who haven't lost will have been the hedge funds and speculators shorting the stock the last 2 years, who have now cleaned up, courtesy of years of appalling management.

ESSEX GULL


Wasting your time Gull he doesn’t even understand basic economics - probably due to getting reports from the business blind corporation (BBC).

The East Coast mainline turned a profit because it deferred massive sums required for capital expenditures. Known as putting lipstick on the pig it is a common ploy to make things look hunky dory to a prospective new owner. Anyone who travelled on it wasn’t fooled though. The trains, track and stations were utter shit holes.

I read the perfect analysis of the ‘nowtsourcing’ debacle yesterday. Unable to run stuff themselves, civil servants under both shades of government outsourced it and then insisted on layers and layers of the very mountain of paperwork and management that had proven so useless in the first place. Those letting the contracts had made a handful of private sector companies look and behave just like the public sector.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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Obadiah

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6475 posts
First used 09/01/17

#25
20/01/2018 at 10:04

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 20/01/2018 at 00:53


Wasting your time Gull he doesn’t even understand basic economics - probably due to getting reports from the business blind corporation (BBC).

The East Coast mainline turned a profit because it deferred massive sums required for capital expenditures. Known as putting lipstick on the pig it is a common ploy to make things look hunky dory to a prospective new owner. Anyone who travelled on it wasn’t fooled though. The trains, track and stations were utter shit holes.

I read the perfect analysis of the ‘nowtsourcing’ debacle yesterday. Unable to run stuff themselves, civil servants under both shades of government outsourced it and then insisted on layers and layers of the very mountain of paperwork and management that had proven so useless in the first place. Those letting the contracts had made a handful of private sector companies look and behave just like the public sector.


Civil Servants have always been able to run stuff themselves. Usually without mountains of paperwork. However, contracting out is an easy way of giving your mates lots and lots of taxpayers' money. It saves them having to compete in the real world with the Japanese, the Koreans, the French or the Germans.

One consequence is the public sector has increasingly come to look like the worst of British industry not the other way around.

The publicly owned East Coast line couldn't afford to renovate the stations and rolling stock so rather than borrow more money they made do with what they had. Virgin and Stagecoach can't afford to do it either so the Tories have allowed them to cut short the contract.
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