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essexgull

8800 posts
First used 12/01/17

#1
03/01/2018 at 09:12

31 (behind Times pay wall)

Could explain why Brexit negotiations have been so appallingly bad so far. Not sure how much experience in negotiation, trade or business a 31 year old can have, certainly one who has spent their career in the civil sector.

Rather bizarre the UK has a government and civil sector negotiating Brexit where the main players never really wanted Brexit in the first place and just used it to take power.


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The Prince of Munster

8423 posts
First used 20/01/17

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Hull City

#2
03/01/2018 at 09:50

Age and experience aren’t always everything. Nothing quite as demoralising as a lazy, been here all my life, experiences staff member, whom spends their days whining how things were far better before bread was sliced.

The mean is not always the best average to make assumptions on, but sometimes grabs the best headlines. What’s the median value and range?

Doesn’t mean those doing the negotiating are 31 either. That number could be brought down by lower paid admin staff starting their careers, who go nowhere near Brussels on a day to day basis. 

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exiled CITY AFC

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11465 posts
First used 11/01/17

#3
03/01/2018 at 09:51

Hardly surprising to me - when I have had any dealings with the civil service - inept seems to be the standard. It’s like a strange parallel universe with last century’s working practices combined with the very worse modern ‘anti-work’ induced policies. E.g. you can’t move a desk without doing a risk assessment, having a procedure written and an observer around when you do it. Ludicrous at best.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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essexgull

8800 posts
First used 12/01/17

#4
03/01/2018 at 12:09

Quote Quote by The Prince of Munster on 03/01/2018 at 09:50
Age and experience aren’t always everything. Nothing quite as demoralising as a lazy, been here all my life, experiences staff member, whom spends their days whining how things were far better before bread was sliced.

The mean is not always the best average to make assumptions on, but sometimes grabs the best headlines. What’s the median value and range?

Doesn’t mean those doing the negotiating are 31 either. That number could be brought down by lower paid admin staff starting their careers, who go nowhere near Brussels on a day to day basis.


From my experience, when it comes to negotiating, experience is everything - way ahead of a university education. I can't see how much experience at a national level anyone can get under 30, but of course there will be exceptions.

It doesn't state what type of average, although says that 83% of all staff are under 40 and only 20% of these worked before the reformation of the bloc in 1993. The head of Brexit negotiation is 43... Outside of the tech industry and especially regarding international trade agreements, I'm not sure you'd see these stats in the private sector, for good reason. It's very odd.


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essexgull

8800 posts
First used 12/01/17

#5
03/01/2018 at 12:13

As an aside, my old company 15 years ago, used a negotiator who left school at 14 to work at a funfair, as his family needed the income after his father's death. Not sure he had read a book in his life, let alone an academic text. He did, however, manage to pull together deals globally - Japan, s America and Asia, usually without a translator. It was almost an artform to watch in action, way beyond my skill set. He made millions in commission from it.


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Obadiah

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6394 posts
First used 09/01/17

#6
04/01/2018 at 21:10

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 03/01/2018 at 09:51
Hardly surprising to me - when I have had any dealings with the civil service - inept seems to be the standard. It’s like a strange parallel universe with last century’s working practices combined with the very worse modern ‘anti-work’ induced policies. E.g. you can’t move a desk without doing a risk assessment, having a procedure written and an observer around when you do it. Ludicrous at best.


I worked in the Civil Service for 35 years. To move a desk the office manager asked two or three members of staff to roll up their sleeves and lift it up and put it down somewhere else. If everyone's desk was going to be moved the office managers drew up a plan and employed a local contractor to come in and move the desks, usually on a weekend.

The only risk assessments I ever saw were for disabled staff as part of their reasonable adjustments.

You could always turn down the work if its too upsetting for you.

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candw

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26368 posts
First used 09/01/17

#7
05/01/2018 at 07:49

Exiled hopes his wealth and high status in the UN ensures he is believed, whatever nonsense he posts. He hopes nobody has a counter to his blusterings.

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exiled CITY AFC

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11465 posts
First used 11/01/17

#8
05/01/2018 at 18:27

I have worked in more civil service offices than my dear friend Obi has years of service in said service so I know what my experience is and my experience is.

I had an Aunt who smoked all her life and didn’t get cancer - doesn’t prove anything.

Look at direct worker to indirect worker ratio in ANY civil service outfit and then let’s have a discussion.

I only post from direct experience and data that can be sourced and verified.

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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Obadiah

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6394 posts
First used 09/01/17

#9
05/01/2018 at 19:35

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 05/01/2018 at 18:27
I have worked in more civil service offices than my dear friend Obi has years of service in said service so I know what my experience is and my experience is.

I had an Aunt who smoked all her life and didn’t get cancer - doesn’t prove anything.

Look at direct worker to indirect worker ratio in ANY civil service outfit and then let’s have a discussion.

I only post from direct experience and data that can be sourced and verified.



I'm sure you have but not enough to know how the Civil Service works when outsiders are around it seems.  

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candw

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26368 posts
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#10
05/01/2018 at 20:39

Posting with data, lol! 

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