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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#31
06/12/2017 at 21:39

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 06/12/2017 at 18:54
Net migration is significantly down, wages are up and we have record employment - all since Brexit vote - quelle surprise eh?


Do you not look at how foolish the UK is looking on the international stage, the complete inability of UK MPs to negotiate a successful Brexit and a British media that fails to properly examine any of what is happening..

Dumbed-down tabloid Britain.

The fact is, the UK will be regulatory aligned with the EU for decades, because the country doesn't have the ability or capacity to do it alone and yet the British public are too stupid and herd like to be told this.

Taking back control just will not happen. All that is happening is leaving a union which decides on the control. But too many can't accept the truth.


ESSEX GULL  

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Obadiah

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6475 posts
First used 09/01/17

#32
06/12/2017 at 22:58

Quote Quote by essexgull on 06/12/2017 at 21:39


Do you not look at how foolish the UK is looking on the international stage, the complete inability of UK MPs to negotiate a successful Brexit and a British media that fails to properly examine any of what is happening..

Dumbed-down tabloid Britain.

The fact is, the UK will be regulatory aligned with the EU for decades, because the country doesn't have the ability or capacity to do it alone and yet the British public are too stupid and herd like to be told this.

Taking back control just will not happen. All that is happening is leaving a union which decides on the control. But too many can't accept the truth.


ESSEX GULL


I can see why you would ask but no I don't look at the world that way.

I see the EU as a capitalist institution that stops the UK adopting socialist policies and therefore we are better off out.

I see the Conservative Party trying to square a circle. Its like Charlie Chaplin on a decoupled train with a leg on each coach. The gap between the two coaches is getting bigger and there could well be a split with an enormous amount of blood on the floor. Big business is looking on aghast at the mess the Tory Party have dropped them in. They desperately want to remain in the EU but have handed the keys to the asylum to the lunatics.

They would have liked a Labour Party under Benn, a safe pair of hands that would have held a second referendum and not threatened their profits. Instead they have Corbyn who may give them Europe but take them on a very unpredictable trip as he tries to please his supporters and voters.

They may have risked a national government, something Blair is currently working for, but there is still the risk of a Corbyn government being elected.

The UK is no longer a major imperialist power as Johnson is finding out trying to influence Trump. Once outside Europe the UK's influence will be further reduced.

One thing the past months have shown is how weak the most successful capitalist party in the world really is. The lower orders will have noticed. We live in interesting times. 

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candw

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26498 posts
First used 09/01/17

#33
07/12/2017 at 07:40

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 06/12/2017 at 18:54
Net migration is significantly down, wages are up and we have record employment - all since Brexit vote - quelle surprise eh?


Wages are still below those of 2008, record employment in many substandard jobs. And, blimey, the whole purpose of this shitstorm is seeing fewer wogs arrive. Wowee!

Good job you ignored all the increases I would have mentioned.

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candw

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26498 posts
First used 09/01/17

#34
07/12/2017 at 08:00

UK has the highest inequality in Europe, highest rents, highest utility costs, highest rail fares, highest child-poverty, highest homelessness, worst wage-growth, lowest pensions...

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candw

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26498 posts
First used 09/01/17

#35
07/12/2017 at 08:06

Solved the problem of productivity!

Philip Hammond: UK productivity rates low because more disabled people are in work.

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#36
08/12/2017 at 01:15

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 06/12/2017 at 22:58


I can see why you would ask but no I don't look at the world that way.

I see the EU as a capitalist institution that stops the UK adopting socialist policies and therefore we are better off out.

I see the Conservative Party trying to square a circle. Its like Charlie Chaplin on a decoupled train with a leg on each coach. The gap between the two coaches is getting bigger and there could well be a split with an enormous amount of blood on the floor. Big business is looking on aghast at the mess the Tory Party have dropped them in. They desperately want to remain in the EU but have handed the keys to the asylum to the lunatics.

They would have liked a Labour Party under Benn, a safe pair of hands that would have held a second referendum and not threatened their profits. Instead they have Corbyn who may give them Europe but take them on a very unpredictable trip as he tries to please his supporters and voters.

They may have risked a national government, something Blair is currently working for, but there is still the risk of a Corbyn government being elected.

The UK is no longer a major imperialist power as Johnson is finding out trying to influence Trump. Once outside Europe the UK's influence will be further reduced.

One thing the past months have shown is how weak the most successful capitalist party in the world really is. The lower orders will have noticed. We live in interesting times.


And in doing so, aligned yourself with forces of hatred, racism and intolerance.

You voted leave hoping for a socialist Republic, the likes of exiled voted leave hoping for the polar opposite - a land of zero public sector, zero corporation tax, zero regulation etc. The chances are that both of you will be disappointed, but having disrupted the lives of many in the process.


ESSEX GULL  

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charon-the-ferryman

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3634 posts
First used 09/01/17

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Hull City

#37
08/12/2017 at 07:10

Quote Quote by candw on 07/12/2017 at 08:00
UK has the highest inequality in Europe, highest rents, highest utility costs, highest rail fares, highest child-poverty, highest homelessness, worst wage-growth, lowest pensions...


and still they pour in 

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candw

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26498 posts
First used 09/01/17

#38
08/12/2017 at 07:44

Quote Quote by charon-the-ferryman on 08/12/2017 at 07:10


and still they pour in


Some of them, comrade, are already here. As you well know.

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Obadiah

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6475 posts
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#39
08/12/2017 at 11:56

Quote Quote by essexgull on 08/12/2017 at 01:15


And in doing so, aligned yourself with forces of hatred, racism and intolerance.

You voted leave hoping for a socialist Republic, the likes of exiled voted leave hoping for the polar opposite - a land of zero public sector, zero corporation tax, zero regulation etc. The chances are that both of you will be disappointed, but having disrupted the lives of many in the process.


ESSEX GULL


The forces of hatred, racism and intolerance are in disarray. UKIP has disintegrated, the Tory government is incompetent and Labour under Corbyn saw the biggest increase in the Party's general election vote in decades. I would say the UK has significantly moved to the Left since the Brexit vote.

I will not be disappointed. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union capitalist is the only dish on offer and look at the mess they've made of the world since 1989. The future will be ours... eventually. 

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
First used 11/01/17

#40
08/12/2017 at 12:06

What we have now is as far from capitalism as the Soviet Union was from socialism.

The bailouts showed that we didn’t really want that capitalism and the Soviet Union showed that we didn’t really want that socialism either.

Both systems contain hazards for those who don’t fully commit and as pack animals we look like we commit to a lot but we all as humans have a bit of a rogue instinct that kicks in called self interest when the system doesn’t work for us.

So

Until the computers run things and the self-interest is dialled out neither system can run to its fullest potential.  

Post edited on 08/12/2017 at 12:07 by exiled CITY AFC

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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26498 posts
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#41
09/12/2017 at 09:09

You seem to me to be suggesting a Mixed Economy. (I've heard that phrase before?)

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Obadiah

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6475 posts
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#42
09/12/2017 at 09:57

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 08/12/2017 at 12:06
What we have now is as far from capitalism as the Soviet Union was from socialism.

The bailouts showed that we didn’t really want that capitalism and the Soviet Union showed that we didn’t really want that socialism either.

Both systems contain hazards for those who don’t fully commit and as pack animals we look like we commit to a lot but we all as humans have a bit of a rogue instinct that kicks in called self interest when the system doesn’t work for us.

So

Until the computers run things and the self-interest is dialled out neither system can run to its fullest potential.


Theories of capitalism and socialism just reflect society as it is. They are just descriptions at a particular time. Capitalism changes over time but it doesn't fundamentally alter the fact that its still capitalism. The capitalists, well the biggest ones anyway, always relied on tax-payers to bail them out or fatten up their profits.

I've been hearing about how computers and machines would save the working man and woman since I was 14. Despite huge increases in productivity in some of our basic industries we are working longer for a smaller share of the national cake. One of the reasons is that increased productivity almost always reduces the number of people working in that industry rather than keeping the same numbers and reducing the length of the working week.

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#43
09/12/2017 at 12:12

The purpose of that, which should be seen as a positive, is that those no longer able to work in that industry due to their jobs being filled by technology, and those that will not enter it, will go on to further the development of the human race. If it didn't work like this, we'd still be tending small plots of land to feed our family.

It's ridiculous that technology should be halted, or punished, to protect jobs. Should computers be banned and workers made to use typewriters and abacuses/abaci?

It's absurd that driverless underground trains are not already in existence, instead relying on a human to press and release a lever. What a waste of potential.

I do, however, believe that the government should offer re-training grants and direction to those made unemployed by tech.

No-one refuses keyhole surgery because the modern method means one less nurse and an anaesthetist in the operating theatre, so why other aspects of life.

ESSEX GULL  

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
First used 11/01/17

#44
10/12/2017 at 10:11

I’ve been involved in computers since the first wave of them entering the work place and all they have done is present massive opportunities. As they arrived most of the then older generation didn’t want anything to do with them. Indeed most over 50’s at the time wanted a quiet life and to coast through to early retirement which was most people’s ambition and the majority got it. As the technology spread it created new jobs and for me going to night school to skill up for this was a no brainer. Likewise I did this again when the fundamental materials of my industry changed. As computers become something we all have I realised along with others that anyone could now start their own company with these things and a whole new bunch of people could create new industries and new forms for the old industries. That what we did Andrew became one of the worlds first successful 100% virtual global company. No offices, virtually zero overheads and thus able to pay spectacularly good wages whilst having low prices which fuelled massive growth just as Henry Ford did. Our people got paid for part-time work more than they did for full time work at a ‘real’ company.

Like Gull says the technology benefits us greatly not only at work but personally. Yes capitalists will always find more work for people to do and it may or may not be at the level of wages you had before but we have all got WAY more leisure time or time to invest in our self development down to the same technology. I’ve said it before but what do you all do on here now you don’t have to go weekly shopping?

That’s two hours right there.
Robotic vacuum cleaner another hour
Dishwasher half hour
Car that doesn’t need fixing every weekend to get to work next week
The list goes on...

If technology was so bad for us we wouldn’t have it in our homes and these days many homes are at least if not more advanced than the work place.

My kids have jobs that I couldn’t even imagine would exist when I went to work and the same will happen for their kids no doing.

It tech was bad we wouldn’t use it.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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26498 posts
First used 09/01/17

#45
10/12/2017 at 11:29

Is Andrew Amazon? If not, what is it? If so, it pays shit wages and has mediaeval working practices. Not that mediaeval working practices were ever that bad. 

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