RSS Feed Share on Facebook Send this to Twitter | Login Login | Register
City Independent
The Hull City Fanzine
 
Hull City Forum

Hull City Forum

Deails Post
95 posts. < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 > Show 15 30 50

New Back To Top

essexgull

8100 posts
First used 12/01/17

#31
06/11/2017 at 11:38

I would be interested to know what has changed your outlook and interpretation of events the last year, TOP old bean.

I was listening to Radio 4 via the web app this morning, whilst driving my daughter to school, as was interested in the UK response to the Paradise Papers. John Humphries was interviewing John McDonnell - part of the interview went -

Humphries - What is your view
McDonnell - The rich should pay the right amount of due tax and not be allowed to use offshoring to hide untaxed profits
Humphries - Are you a Marxist then?

And so on with the interview...

Absolutely bizarre - reminiscent of this forum a few years ago, where if just suggesting that the wealthy should pay a legally determined fair amount of tax on their profit, you are regarded as a communist. And this is a national broadcaster..

Some of the other comments were along the lines of being careful with the wealthy and big companies, as if made to pay tax, they would leave the UK... but this was hardly an issue when voting for Brexit.

It seems that adequate analysis and discussion has been replaced with squawking at those not wearing the right size poppy.



ESSEX GULL 

New Back To Top

theotherphantom

User Image

12257 posts
First used 09/01/17

Group
Hull City

#32
06/11/2017 at 11:51

Quote Quote by essexgull on 06/11/2017 at 11:38
I would be interested to know what has changed your outlook and interpretation of events the last year, TOP old bean.

I was listening to Radio 4 via the web app this morning, whilst driving my daughter to school, as was interested in the UK response to the Paradise Papers. John Humphries was interviewing John McDonnell - part of the interview went -

Humphries - What is your view
McDonnell - The rich should pay the right amount of due tax and not be allowed to use offshoring to hide untaxed profits
Humphries - Are you a Marxist then?

And so on with the interview...

Absolutely bizarre - reminiscent of this forum a few years ago, where if just suggesting that the wealthy should pay a legally determined fair amount of tax on their profit, you are regarded as a communist. And this is a national broadcaster..

Some of the other comments were along the lines of being careful with the wealthy and big companies, as if made to pay tax, they would leave the UK... but this was hardly an issue when voting for Brexit.

It seems that adequate analysis and discussion has been replaced with squawking at those not wearing the right size poppy.



ESSEX GULL


Sounds like Humphries squawking the crap of the neoliberal economic theory (which Owen Jones explains well in his book The Establishment). Look, as far as I'm concerned, that economic model needs doing away with. As I've said before, the only way that will happen is with Corbyn in power here and perhaps with Trump in power in the USA. If you see any contradiction in wanting the Tories out over here and the Clintons out over there, tough. Those are the parties that are the chief flag bearers for neoliberalism and I want it gone. It's a far-right economic model that has been gradually rebranded as centrist when it's nothing of the sort. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

New Back To Top

theotherphantom

User Image

12257 posts
First used 09/01/17

Group
Hull City

#33
06/11/2017 at 12:04

See if this helps.

This is about the history of political correctness / cultural marxism / the Frankfurt School.

It's becoming prevalent. I don't like it because it's dishonest.



>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

New Back To Top

Obadiah

User Image

6290 posts
First used 09/01/17

#34
06/11/2017 at 13:41

TOP I agree that video was completely dishonest, but I thought you agreed with it.

After the 4th of November the whole world can see how much power antifa actually have and it was very little. As I told you a few months ago. Do you think the people who peddle this "antifa are all powerful" crap are reliable and honest? 

New Back To Top

theotherphantom

User Image

12257 posts
First used 09/01/17

Group
Hull City

#35
06/11/2017 at 13:57

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 06/11/2017 at 13:41
TOP I agree that video was completely dishonest, but I thought you agreed with it.

After the 4th of November the whole world can see how much power antifa actually have and it was very little. As I told you a few months ago. Do you think the people who peddle this "antifa are all powerful" crap are reliable and honest?


I said cultural marxism is dishonest. Political Correctness is dishonest. Evidently from recent months posting on here, whichever source I choose is a wrong one. Either that or those of you that imply such are deluded or dishonest. I can see the stuff it describes happening, and that is what is irritating the hell out of me. I accept I'm being lied to by the right, but I'm also clearly being lied to by the left as well, and it the lies from the left side that are pervasive, apart from the neoliberal economic crap.

As for November 4th, the original source was a site called RefuseFascism.org that is allegedly allied with Antifa. If you read what I wrote throughout this post about what might have happened on the 4th, you'll see that I had doubts about it. However, I don't for a single second believe that there is a problem with fascism in the USA, except for the fascist tactics the extreme left deploy.
https://refusefascism.org/

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

New Back To Top

Obadiah

User Image

6290 posts
First used 09/01/17

#36
06/11/2017 at 14:34

Quote Quote by theotherphantom on 06/11/2017 at 13:57


Political Correctness is dishonest. Evidently from recent months posting on here, whichever source I choose is a wrong one. Either that or those of you that imply such are deluded or dishonest.


I don't see anything dishonest in political correctness. All it boils down to is showing people who are different to you a bit of respect. In fact it could have been taken straight out of the Bible.

The right wing have made it into something to fear. Add in its all part of a Marxist conspiracy and you have a return to the 1950s, when, predominantly white men, ruled the US.

All the videos you post say more or less the same thing. The right lost power in the 1960s and they want it back. Society changed fundamentally in the 1960s, the pill, drugs and full employment let the genie out of the bottle and its not going back in.

Nearly all the 1960s trendy left wingers, like David Horowitz, came to terms with capitalism in the 80s and 90s and changed sides. Political Correctness is one way capitalism achieved that. It changed its spots because it realised calling a black entrepreneur a nigger was counter-productive, that trying to keep a white middle class woman in the family home wasn't profitable and with the advent of the pill, telling people to wait until they were married before having sex was like trying to blow out a forest fire with a straw. Political Correctness is the latest version of the American dream. You can succeed in capitalist America if you are black, yellow, female or gay.

The videos you post are by powerless people who want to be powerful. They cannot blame the representatives of the capitalist class so they blame some obscure Marxist academics. Yes, they are being dishonest. Marcuse would have had no effect if entrepreneurs hadn't wanted to employ millions of women, black and/or gay workers. 

New Back To Top

theotherphantom

User Image

12257 posts
First used 09/01/17

Group
Hull City

#37
06/11/2017 at 16:13

Then in future I shall have to check specific points with the board's experts. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

New Back To Top

theotherphantom

User Image

12257 posts
First used 09/01/17

Group
Hull City

#38
06/11/2017 at 16:51

So.

Question: US research suggests that those brought up in single-parent families (1, 2) are more likely to become involved in crime, as well as to suffer in other ways. This takes no account of the reasons for absence of a parent. Figures from earlier this decade indicate that two-thirds of Afro-Carribean children were in single-parent families.

Is it reasonable to infer that the preponderance of single-parent Afro-Carribean families is one of the most significant factors in the problems that the Afro-Carribean citizens have?

1. https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Ab stract.aspx?id=167327
2. http://marripedia.org/effects_of_fatherle ss_families_on_crime_rates
3. http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tabl es/107-children-in-single-parent-families -by#detailed/1/any/false/573,869,36,868,8 67/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

New Back To Top

Obadiah

User Image

6290 posts
First used 09/01/17

#39
06/11/2017 at 16:56

Quote Quote by theotherphantom on 06/11/2017 at 16:13
Then in future I shall have to check specific points with the board's experts.


Or you could read some books on what happened to the 60s generation in the US. Why peace and love ended up with Reagan, Bush and Bush. Why the hope kindled by Martin Luther King ended up in the wastelands of Detroit.

How Vietnam affected the United States, especially the black communities.

How women fought for recognition and equal pay. What the Stonewall riot meant to the gay community as well as their fight against AIDS and to get the disease treated seriously, not just the gay plague.

You could also watch 3 hours of Woodstock and listen to what the young people have to say. Especially the young man who wanted wine, women and song whilst his parents thought he was in a Communist training camp. The Woodstock nation went on to invade Afghanistan and Iraq as well as intervene in El Salvador and Nicaragua. Watching that film with hindsight is an interesting experience.

There are plenty of books out there you could buy or borrow from the library. Plenty of decent documentaries, made from all points of view. That is, if you are really interested in finding out where political correctness came from. For some people its much easier to believe it's a communist plot.

In the 1960s the white male middle class wanted to take drugs and fuck without having to get married. The pill, pot and pop music gave them the opportunity. They did that without any help from Marcuse. When it was time to go to work for a living a majority ended up like their parents.

A minority though held on to their beliefs and continue to try and make the world a better place. 

New Back To Top

essexgull

8100 posts
First used 12/01/17

#40
06/11/2017 at 17:16

Quote Quote by theotherphantom on 06/11/2017 at 16:51
So.

Question: US research suggests that those brought up in single-parent families (1, 2) are more likely to become involved in crime, as well as to suffer in other ways. This takes no account of the reasons for absence of a parent. Figures from earlier this decade indicate that two-thirds of Afro-Carribean children were in single-parent families.

Is it reasonable to infer that the preponderance of single-parent Afro-Carribean families is one of the most significant factors in the problems that the Afro-Carribean citizens have?

1. https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Ab stract.aspx?id=167327
2. http://marripedia.org/effects_of_fatherle ss_families_on_crime_rates
3. http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tabl es/107-children-in-single-parent-families -by#detailed/1/any/false/573,869,36,868,8 67/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431


Oh dear, TOP old bean.

Correlation does not imply causation - the first rule of any statistical research. There's no need to get into the external factors that influence the child of an African-American single parent and let's not start on centuries of systemic racism.

Like candw, I'm genuinely sorry for your 'turn' - I've disagreed with you on occasions in the past, but always respected the difference of opinion. I can only assume that the 'red pills' you've been taking are of a stronger variety.

Shame.


ESSEX GULL 

New Back To Top

theotherphantom

User Image

12257 posts
First used 09/01/17

Group
Hull City

#41
06/11/2017 at 17:54

Quote Quote by essexgull on 06/11/2017 at 17:16


Oh dear, TOP old bean.

Correlation does not imply causation - the first rule of any statistical research. There's no need to get into the external factors that influence the child of an African-American single parent and let's not start on centuries of systemic racism.

Like candw, I'm genuinely sorry for your 'turn' - I've disagreed with you on occasions in the past, but always respected the difference of opinion. I can only assume that the 'red pills' you've been taking are of a stronger variety.

Shame.


ESSEX GULL


Did you not notice the word "question" in there? What's the point in me asking for a response to a neutrally worded question if all I get back is insinuations? I know about correlation and causation. I ASKED if it were reasonable. I'm sure you've other explanations. I'm well aware that Candw explains everything as racism. Another question would be are things worse for them now compared to 50 years ago and, if so, whether that would mean more racism or less.

If I get insinuations from people on here for (a) opinions and additionally for (b) questions, there is no point whatsoever in me bothering. I haven't the time to spend reading book after book after book after book to catch the "right" viewpoints for what, for me, is a niche interest, rather than the lifetime study most if the rest of you have made of it.

This is typical of the extreme leftist shite I keep seeing and which you all loudly deny exists. I give an opinion, and it's wrong, I ask a question, and that's wrong too, so why should I even bother? You're just proving my point for me. Fuck it, I'll take the line the rest of the UK population takes, and vote for the candidates with the nicest hair rather than trying to at least get some kind of handle on it. You lot can continue with your self-delusions.

I'm off.

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

New Back To Top

candw

User Image

25848 posts
First used 09/01/17

#42
06/11/2017 at 19:26

Not everything is racism, ToP. It's sad that you said that. Large amounts of everything - the majority - is down to naked greed and self-interest. However, if you really think that a few people in V masks outweigh the entrenched privilege of those who don't march anywhere, you have an odd idea of equality. In fact, you must be a snowflake, or a melt or whatever.

You should come back, ToP, as you will be missed - unless you start posting "Hitler is innocent" or "White GeNOcide" links.



New Back To Top

candw

User Image

25848 posts
First used 09/01/17

#43
06/11/2017 at 19:33

Is it reasonable to infer that the preponderance of single-parent Afro-Carribean families is one of the most significant factors in the problems that the Afro-Carribean citizens have?

What other significant factors are there? How do single parent white kids compare with two parent white kids, or single parent black kids?



Keep your eye on the bastards that are out to screw you. They're desperate for you to take your eye off the ball. "Look at that Antifa yob over there!" Whoops, they've just taken away your affordable access to court justice.

New Back To Top

theotherphantom

User Image

12257 posts
First used 09/01/17

Group
Hull City

#44
06/11/2017 at 19:52



>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

New Back To Top

exiled CITY AFC

User Image

11150 posts
First used 11/01/17

#45
07/11/2017 at 02:47

As one of the rare folk in the UK that managed to transcend his 'born in a council house, white working class boy, comprehensive school, etc. Etc.' underprivileged beginnings I have some insight in this matter. Also having had a mother involved in front line radical feminist politics (second wave) and working on the front line of social injustice her whole life I can relate to where 'poltical correctness came from and where it has now ended up. My mother is now bored stupid of saying "This isn't what we fought for". Like many movements before and many to come..

Peace, Love and Mind expansion didn't take long to become Sex, Drugs and Rock n Roll.

The age old liberals vs conservatives - freedom fighters vs the establishment is a never ending circus like the set of the wizard of Oz.

What you have is people without power, seeking power (often under the guise of seeking an end to injustice), and then in no time at all becoming the new establishment and thus the new targets for those who now see them as them as the cause of their own perceived victimhood.

It's like that wonderfully ironic moment when the original Working Class Hero - John Lennon - dares to sing "imagine no possessions" in a room from his mansion the size of an ice rink with no apparent sense of irony.

The identify politics and victim Olympics of the modern left and the countering force of the Alt-right is just the new version of the endless game with new terms.

Left vs. Right when most sane people are following a middle ground and then realising you largely get out what you put in in this life is school level gangs for adults.

These days more and more of what was closed by the establishment can be hacked and is therefore accessible to way more than it ever was - just like cooperatives did when they too figured they could buy industrial machines and join the then new revolution.

As soon as this generations 'workers' cross the barracades they will be the first ones to erect the new ones.

Keep playing the same records and bask in the familiarity of your favourite sounds...

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

95 posts. < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 > Show 15 30 50