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theotherphantom

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#31
05/09/2017 at 04:54

Quote Quote by candw on 04/09/2017 at 08:06
ToP died and someone took over his postings.


4.07

TOP realised that the left's bogeymonster, which is what kept him from ever voting Labour from his first chance in 1979 until he decided to ignore it to support the NHS this year, was something he now calls the authoritarian left or the regressive left. TOP despises authoritatrians of all colours, though understands that this is a result of his personality traits, which are not shared with others. The loony far left is, I have to admit, a bogeyman that Rupert Merdeoch's comics use to scare the UK public out of voting in adequate numbers to get the Cons out of office. It is also, confusingly, a distant part of the left that seems to wake up when Labour, except under Blair, get a sniff of power, and tries to make itself look Big and Important, and helps the Tory dirtrags with their bogeyman stories. In a suicidal display of unself-awareness and contradictoriness, the regressive left emerges and torpedoes Labour's chances of getting elected.

Meanwhile, in the US of A, the land of the "free", the left is the Democrats and the right is the Republicans, all of whom are, by definition, raving racists. The left in the USA has taken leave of its senses. Its fruitcake section has become anti-free speech, anti-sense, anti-debate, anti-truth, etcetera. Google and YouTube are piling in. Keep your eyes open for "alt tech", where replacement sites are arising, not just for those closed-down sites for those on the right, but for those on the left that still believe in the First Amendment over there. YouTube is closing down accounts for wrong speak (1984 is there, only 33 years late). It will backfire spectacularly. The woman in the above video had her account limited for criticising the terrorist group Black Lives Matter, until the social media backlash persuaded YouTube to reluctantly reconsider. Over in the USA, anything to the right of Mao or Trotsky or Marx is being censored. Free speech is something I consider sacrosanct, even to the point of abhorring the clampdown on "hate speech"; we all know the phrase Voltaire didn't actually say; and I would rather let the idiots tell me that they are idiots so that I know. What happens when speech becomes censored works in nobody's favour. Nobody's mind is changed; bad opinions are merely forced underground, and then can't be monitored. It's like when groups such as Anonymous close down radical Islamic sites. Sure it might stop a few more idiots with single-figure IQs from joining ISIS, but it makes it much harder for the sites to be monitored by the appropriate national agencies. As for US right-wing nutjobs like the KKK, an organisation, if that's the right word, with an understandbly low membership count, the net effect of driving them into the "dark web" means the total number of idiots with such opinions is changed by a big fat zero.

I hate the R-word with a loathing. It accuses and it is divisive and unproductive. It seeks not to understand the other person's concerns, but to write them off as worthless, brainless, and immaterial. It seeks not to persuade, but to pigeonhole and to divide. It's a word to promote conflict and do away with cooperation. It's for use by those that want there to be a Them and an Us. It leaves no manoeuvre room on either side; one side because they want to afford no manoeuvre room, and the other side because they are forced onto the defensive, which is a place where nobody's mind was ever changed on anything.

My PoliticalCompass visits still place me closer to Ghandi that to anyone else (around -6,-6, so solidly libertarian left), and I can live with that.

4.40, so this should post now. I'd better copy, just in case.

Anyway, here's Candice from above to puncture the innocence of the US left on race issues.



>>>>> 11th season in exile <<<<< 

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theotherphantom

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#32
05/09/2017 at 05:50

Candace, not Candice. 

>>>>> 11th season in exile <<<<< 

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candw

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#33
05/09/2017 at 10:52

...for criticising the terrorist group Black Lives Matter...

You would rather they were the Black and White Minstrels, I suppose?

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candw

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#34
05/09/2017 at 12:04

ToP, the Right own nearly all the world and nearly all the propaganda outlets, so any discontent will come from the Left, although the Farther Right are getting bolder. You seem to consider all those demonstrating more strongly than Letters to the Editor, as terrorists. Gandhi liberated his nation from an Empire beaten to its knees, but I can't imagine passive resistance can liberate the world from the world.

I am pleased you don't consider yourself as Left, so I don't really mind that you have given up and are prepared to accept what we're offered at present. I'm somewhat saddened that you think Labour people are the loony left, or such. I mean, of course, not Blairites, but Labourites.

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theotherphantom

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#35
05/09/2017 at 12:33

Quote Quote by candw on 05/09/2017 at 12:04
ToP, the Right own nearly all the world and nearly all the propaganda outlets, so any discontent will come from the Left, although the Farther Right are getting bolder. You seem to consider all those demonstrating more strongly than Letters to the Editor, as terrorists. Gandhi liberated his nation from an Empire beaten to its knees, but I can't imagine passive resistance can liberate the world from the world.

I am pleased you don't consider yourself as Left, so I don't really mind that you have given up and are prepared to accept what we're offered at present. I'm somewhat saddened that you think Labour people are the loony left, or such. I mean, of course, not Blairites, but Labourites.


Most of that just isn't what I said.

I've been "a bit left of centre" as long as I can remember, and normally voted for centre parties, more in hope than in anything else. The first several visits to Political Compass put me at around (-1, -1) in the coordinates, which means a bit left of centre and a bit libertarian on their libertarian/authoritarian scale. Over the last couple of years, my results have been (-6, -6) which is a big leap left (which PoliticalCompass consider, more or less, a scale based on economy) and a big leap to a more libertarian place.

What I've been describing as the loony left are, in this country, those such as the SWP and Militant Tendency and whatever their modern equivalents are. Those are the bogeymen invoked by the right. In the USA there's a raft of far-leftists, such as Antifa (whose name is a lie; they're fascists) and others, but over there most of the media is on the left. The Labour party in this country is hugely preferable to the Tories in this country, despite the presence, as I've said frequently before of a number of Blairites who wish they were in the Tory party and have been causing more bother for Corbyn than the Tories have. The bulk of the Labour party memberships is where I would want it to be, and I'm surprised you've derived the opposite from what I wrote as I was taking some care to make my meaning clear.

My problem with the regressive/far left in the USA is that they are anti-fact, anti-debate, anti-free speech, anti-science, etc, etc. They are closing down free speech and lectures in the USA and Canada, even from moderate speakers with moderate or even left political views. Richard Dawkins is one example. Australia is going the same way. Like many other groups, BLM's website job description is nowhere near the truth. Antifa is another. Both of these are intent on violence. If Ghandi asked them to tone things down, they would call him a Nazi, and that would be ample excuse to physically attack him.

Compared with most people who have ever lived, oppression in the USA is minimal. There is no race war over there. Strife is being engineered to make Soros more money and to make Trump look worse. As the woman in one of those videos mentioned, where were all these militant racists when Obama was in power? 

>>>>> 11th season in exile <<<<< 

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theotherphantom

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#36
05/09/2017 at 12:45

I'm aware that the right own most of the media. All the more reason for any on the left that still have a voice to be honest and not resort to distorting what they say. 

>>>>> 11th season in exile <<<<< 

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theotherphantom

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#37
05/09/2017 at 13:11

Quote Quote by candw on 05/09/2017 at 10:52
...for criticising the terrorist group Black Lives Matter...

You would rather they were the Black and White Minstrels, I suppose?


I'd prefer it if a black person were allowed to comment on a black group she believes to be violent without having her YouTube channel restricted. Personally I'm glad I don't live over there, but I am bothered that things that start over there often spread over here, as some nonsense recently has. 

>>>>> 11th season in exile <<<<< 

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candw

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#38
05/09/2017 at 13:30

OK, ToP, I'm leaving this discussion. Sorry for any misunderstandings I may have had. I also believe you have some misunderstandings also.  

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exiled CITY AFC

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#39
05/09/2017 at 15:43

Quote Quote by candw on 05/09/2017 at 10:52
...for criticising the terrorist group Black Lives Matter...

You would rather they were the Black and White Minstrels, I suppose?


Martin Luther Kings relatives are on record as saying they wish (they BLM) would just go away as they are taking us backwards.

Top is nailing what is going on in the USA and creeping in over here BBC 3's "what not to say to someone who...." series is cultural Marxism and one step away from thought crime.

Authoritarian left or right are both murderous if left unchecked and as I predicted years ago governments are powerless in the face of global corporations who are now deciding what is thought crime and what isn't.

Scary times for a slightly left leaning libertarian like me?

Did you see piers Morgan and the black (tick) transgender (tick) model (tick) who had been fired by L'Oreal (tick - sticking it to the big bad corporation) - all white straight men are the reason for everything about her/zir/zee/their problems (yes I know I should use all twenty six approved pro-nouns until I know it's preference but I haven't got time.
Check it out...


This is how mad the madness has gotten.

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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essexgull

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#40
05/09/2017 at 15:59

If you're a libertarian and free speech supporter, shouldn't it be more scary that an employer sacked an employee for what she wrote on her personal social media page?


ESSEX GULL

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imperishablehcfc

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#41
05/09/2017 at 16:37

Gull, 'she' is a man, just as Michael Jackson was black, don't be fooled. 

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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essexgull

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#42
05/09/2017 at 16:45

As a libertarian, shouldn't you let her be anything she wants to be.

Black people have long complained about white cultural racism and structural privilege, it's not new, so I don't see why so many white middle-aged men, such as Piers Morgan and Exiled, get so upset about being told it. Muhammed Ali explained it to Parkinson in the 1970s in a tv interview and how ridiculous it was that society was supposed to ignore and forget 400 years of slavery and maltreatment to suddenly be equal and fair in the space of a couple of decades.

Numerous factual, scientific and evidence-based tests show that people of colour are structurally worse off in the west, as a result of centuries of white supremacy and pillaging of their cultures. What's there to disagree with.


ESSEX GULL  

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imperishablehcfc

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#43
05/09/2017 at 16:56

I'm not a libertarian, he is what he is, chopping a few bits off and pumping up others doesn't change anything 

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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candw

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#44
05/09/2017 at 17:04

I don't agree, chinky. You've got two daughters so you must have a dick, but you're also a cunt. Things are all black and white.

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candw

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#45
05/09/2017 at 17:06

Martin Luther Kings relatives are on record as saying they wish (they BLM) would just go away as they are taking us backwards.

Yes, just uppity niggers upsetting The Man with a few demos and chants. The time to worry is when they start hanging White Boyz from trees.

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