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Obadiah

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6242 posts
First used 09/01/17

#106
12/09/2017 at 19:29

Quote Quote by theotherphantom on 12/09/2017 at 18:38
That it? Those are illegal in most western countries.


It seems your idea of free speech and mine differ. I thought free speech meant free speech, not something that can be limited by a government.  

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essexgull

7938 posts
First used 12/01/17

#107
12/09/2017 at 20:03

TOP seems to prefer free speech as long as it's the right free speech, which puts him in the same category as those he is rallying against.. Similar to another poster. Ban Islamists from universities as they influence students, but allow racists because they don't... Talk about arguing yourself into a corner.


ESSEX GULL  

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exiled CITY AFC

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11046 posts
First used 11/01/17

#108
13/09/2017 at 06:27

I'm for free speech - all ideas should be criticised - especially bat shit crazy ones.

Law breakers should be apprended - stupid lawmakers should too.

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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theotherphantom

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#109
13/09/2017 at 13:00

Quote Quote by essexgull on 12/09/2017 at 20:03
TOP seems to prefer free speech as long as it's the right free speech, which puts him in the same category as those he is rallying against.. Similar to another poster. Ban Islamists from universities as they influence students, but allow racists because they don't... Talk about arguing yourself into a corner.


ESSEX GULL


I don't know how or where you've picked up that impression. I havent mentioned Islam on here for ages. The world would be a better place with it and a major problem is that they're treated differently. I did mention about some nebulous undefined notion called Islamophobia becoming illegal in Canada, which is absurd when there's nothing similar relating to other religions. Anyone who disgrees with any teachings of Islam is branded racist, which is stupid. Islam should not be above criticism. 

>>>>> 11th season in exile <<<<< 

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theotherphantom

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#110
13/09/2017 at 13:12

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 12/09/2017 at 19:29


It seems your idea of free speech and mine differ. I thought free speech meant free speech, not something that can be limited by a government.


I don't support this current "hate speech" crap. I'm more than happy for those limitations to be removed. The hate speech laws are going to be supplemented with Orwellian "hate thought" laws in no time, which is far worse. I can understand the defamation laws, because in the internet age, any thrown mud sticks. 

>>>>> 11th season in exile <<<<< 

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Obadiah

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6242 posts
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#111
13/09/2017 at 15:00

Quote Quote by theotherphantom on 13/09/2017 at 13:12


I don't support this current "hate speech" crap. I'm more than happy for those limitations to be removed. The hate speech laws are going to be supplemented with Orwellian "hate thought" laws in no time, which is far worse. I can understand the defamation laws, because in the internet age, any thrown mud sticks.


Are thousands of Arabs walking down a street shouting "kill the Jews" just exercising their right to free speech? If it happened in downtown Toronto wouldn't it be an offence under the Canadian hate speech laws?  

Post edited on 13/09/2017 at 15:00 by Obadiah

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theotherphantom

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#112
13/09/2017 at 16:23

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 13/09/2017 at 15:00


Are thousands of Arabs walking down a street shouting "kill the Jews" just exercising their right to free speech? If it happened in downtown Toronto wouldn't it be an offence under the Canadian hate speech laws?


I don't know what point you're making. Most of us are bound to some extent by not being uncivilised savages with low IQs. 

>>>>> 11th season in exile <<<<< 

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essexgull

7938 posts
First used 12/01/17

#113
13/09/2017 at 16:52

It's a dangerous road you're walking down, TOP old bean. You'll be wearing a Free Assange t-shirt and sending anonymous snide remarks to Diane Abbot about her weight on twitter soon.

ESSEX GULL  

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Obadiah

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#114
13/09/2017 at 17:04

Quote Quote by theotherphantom on 13/09/2017 at 16:23


I don't know what point you're making. Most of us are bound to some extent by not being uncivilised savages with low IQs.


How do you legally differentiate "Kill the Jews" from the examples of "hate speech" you disagree with? Where do you draw the line when something is acceptable as free speech or when something isn't. Absolute free speech means accepting the right of people to say "Kill the Jews", Kill the Muslims" or "Kill the Whites". Restricted free speech means there are boundaries imposed from above and whether you agree with those boundaries is determined by whether you agree with the people imposing the boundaries.

You disagreeing with the Canadian government whilst others support it, is a perfect example. You are not arguing about free speech but where to draw the line restricting it. 

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exiled CITY AFC

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11046 posts
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#115
13/09/2017 at 19:37

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 13/09/2017 at 15:00


Are thousands of Arabs walking down a street shouting "kill the Jews" just exercising their right to free speech? If it happened in downtown Toronto wouldn't it be an offence under the Canadian hate speech laws?


The thing is not what the law says Obi but these days on what law is being enforced. Of people see inconsistencies they will rightly raise it. Recently in London Sadiq Kahn' refused to condemn marchers in London marching with the flags of a proscribed terrorist organisation on display. The Jewish community was incensed, complained and reported the offence but nothing was done as the police took the view that making an arrest or two was likely to inflame things and lead to bigger crimes. This leads to a dangerous two tier system where - yes people can walk down the street yelling offensive things - but there is no balance in reality. My worry is without free speech you get VERY expensive silence which ultimately leads to repression of thought. Some right now people would rightly say large groups wandering around with terrorist related paraphernalia can do that will smaller groups will be arrested for some leaflets and a can of pepper spray.

We at now so close to Orwells concept of thought crime I fear free speech will be virtually dead within five years.

Ideas and ideology should be open to reasoned debate - blasphemy rules whether secular or religious have always ushered in dark times when they apppear.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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theotherphantom

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#116
15/09/2017 at 01:01

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 13/09/2017 at 17:04


How do you legally differentiate "Kill the Jews" from the examples of "hate speech" you disagree with? Where do you draw the line when something is acceptable as free speech or when something isn't. Absolute free speech means accepting the right of people to say "Kill the Jews", Kill the Muslims" or "Kill the Whites". Restricted free speech means there are boundaries imposed from above and whether you agree with those boundaries is determined by whether you agree with the people imposing the boundaries.

You disagreeing with the Canadian government whilst others support it, is a perfect example. You are not arguing about free speech but where to draw the line restricting it.


Okay, I'm prepared to concede that there may be places where lines can helpfully be drawn. However, I am not prepared to concede that there are ideas that cannot be debated, whatever groups like Antifa insist. Further, you appear not to understand, or are pretending not to accept, that making a concept illegal in law while not defining that concept, particularly when and if the ranks of a country's bureaucracy is awash with ideologues, leaves the law wide open to the whims of whoever holds power, and that's happening in Canada. 

>>>>> 11th season in exile <<<<< 

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candw

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25694 posts
First used 09/01/17

#117
15/09/2017 at 08:06

Wasn't the bloke in the vid arguing - really - that blokes want to be able to claim the women were gagging for it because of tweets or facebook comments? And the prosecutors felt it was redressing a balance that could not be sprung on the trial unfairly?

If not, sorry, poor short term memory.

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essexgull

7938 posts
First used 12/01/17

#118
15/09/2017 at 16:46

Quote Quote by theotherphantom on 15/09/2017 at 01:01


Okay, I'm prepared to concede that there may be places where lines can helpfully be drawn. However, I am not prepared to concede that there are ideas that cannot be debated, whatever groups like Antifa insist. Further, you appear not to understand, or are pretending not to accept, that making a concept illegal in law while not defining that concept, particularly when and if the ranks of a country's bureaucracy is awash with ideologues, leaves the law wide open to the whims of whoever holds power, and that's happening in Canada.


TOP old bean, laws are always wide open to the whims of whomever holds power - they're seldom absolute.

A wealthy white drink driver who kills someone is always less likely to be imprisoned or found guilty of the most serious offence, than a poor, black immigrant, for example.



ESSEX GULL 

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exiled CITY AFC

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11046 posts
First used 11/01/17

#119
15/09/2017 at 19:17

Unless it's OJ Simpson? 

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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theotherphantom

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#120
16/09/2017 at 04:02



>>>>> 11th season in exile <<<<< 

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