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exiled CITY AFC

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#31
16/07/2017 at 17:25


You have literally NO CLUE what non-value-added activity actually is and your ignorance is clear.

Regulations and safety can be achieved without adding forms, tick boxes, and a whole load of supervisory jobs - trouble is you can't even begin to see how if you can't see the difference between work and waste.

Again it's why UK productivity is so bad because sadly you are not alone.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#32
16/07/2017 at 18:13

So you don't mean that recording is non value-added work? I'm pleased with that. What do you mean, then?

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candw

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#33
16/07/2017 at 18:41

Polishing their helmets and whistles, I suppose?

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Obadiah

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#34
16/07/2017 at 19:03

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 16/07/2017 at 17:25

You have literally NO CLUE what non-value-added activity actually is and your ignorance is clear.

Regulations and safety can be achieved without adding forms, tick boxes, and a whole load of supervisory jobs - trouble is you can't even begin to see how if you can't see the difference between work and waste.

Again it's why UK productivity is so bad because sadly you are not alone.


He might not have an understanding of PACE and the reasons it was passed by Parliament but I do. Yes it might be done slightly quicker, couldn't everything, but filling in forms is an essential part of convicting criminals. Maybe you'd prefer the courts to let criminals off because the Police hadn't filled in the correct form?

As to productivity. The reason the Japanese and Koreans can produce electric goods cheaper is because of the vast amount of consumer debt sloshing around the system, in particular the UK and the US. They couldn't achieve the productivity they do if there was no consumer credit. 

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candw

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#35
17/07/2017 at 07:44

So, this non value added work? It can't possibly be performance figures, so I need help with it. Ta.

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exiled CITY AFC

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#36
17/07/2017 at 11:13

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 16/07/2017 at 19:03


PART A He might not have an understanding of PACE and the reasons it was passed by Parliament but I do. Yes it might be done slightly quicker, couldn't everything, but filling in forms is an essential part of convicting criminals. Maybe you'd prefer the courts to let criminals off because the Police hadn't filled in the correct form?

PART B As to productivity. The reason the Japanese and Koreans can produce electric goods cheaper is because of the vast amount of consumer debt sloshing around the system, in particular the UK and the US. They couldn't achieve the productivity they do if there was no consumer credit.


Ans: A the form filling could be done quicker but that's not the issue. Try and think of some other waste coppers engage in

Ans: B productivity has nothing to do with demand you can have low demand and high productivity you are confusing productivity with demand / volume

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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Obadiah

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#37
17/07/2017 at 11:56

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 17/07/2017 at 11:13


Ans: A the form filling could be done quicker but that's not the issue. Try and think of some other waste coppers engage in

Ans: B productivity has nothing to do with demand you can have low demand and high productivity you are confusing productivity with demand / volume



I can think of loads of waste coppers engage in but candw was discussing preparing evidence for court. Many of the safeguards that are in place are there to ensure evidence is admitted in Court and considered by the jury. Its essential work given the law to get a conviction. Most of it involves creating a paper trail and is boring repetitive work.

If demand is high then there is an incentive to increase productivity. Its why we have mass production. Once you have mass production you have an incentive to increase quality and productivity. Its why most of the small car manufacturers went bust and Ford went from a model T to the models they produce today. Its also why we saw the rise of the major Japanese car manufacturers. The same in electronic goods. If demand is low then you compete on quality alone. How do you measure productivity for a formula one car? You don't, you measure quality and performance.  

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candw

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#38
17/07/2017 at 11:57

Productivity in the car industry is high. Sales are totally reliant on debt. Policemen could fill forms in quicker if they didn't have to deal with the failed mental health system. And if they could write more quickly.

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exiled CITY AFC

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#39
17/07/2017 at 15:14

Quote Quote by Obadiah on 17/07/2017 at 11:56

If demand is high then there is an incentive to increase productivity. Its why we have mass production. Once you have mass production you have an incentive to increase quality and productivity. Its why most of the small car manufacturers went bust and Ford went from a model T to the models they produce today. Its also why we saw the rise of the major Japanese car manufacturers. The same in electronic goods. If demand is low then you compete on quality alone. How do you measure productivity for a formula one car? You don't, you measure quality and performance.


Obi we haven't used mass production - make as many as you can as quick as you can - for more than 1/4 of a century now.

The rise of the Japanese car manufacturers was precisely because they rejected mass production and came up with their own system that had high productivity no matter the demand with he benefits of better worker treatment and higher quality. Their system was then ported across to their electronics industry. Your history is wrong I am afraid and your understanding of modern production economics is based on old data from an old system. There is no such thing of economies of scale anymore that has been trumped by economies of flow and efficiency no matter how many things you do.

How do you measure the productivity of an F1 car? Exactly the same way you measure productivity of any human endeavour.

Required Inputs for expected outcomes...  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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Obadiah

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#40
17/07/2017 at 15:26

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 17/07/2017 at 15:14


Obi we haven't used mass production - make as many as you can as quick as you can - for more than 1/4 of a century now.

The rise of the Japanese car manufacturers was precisely because they rejected mass production and came up with their own system that had high productivity no matter the demand with he benefits of better worker treatment and higher quality. Their system was then ported across to their electronics industry. Your history is wrong I am afraid and your understanding of modern production economics is based on old data from an old system. There is no such thing of economies of scale anymore that has been trumped by economies of flow and efficiency no matter how many things you do.

How do you measure the productivity of an F1 car? Exactly the same way you measure productivity of any human endeavour.

Required Inputs for expected outcomes...


Nissan's 4.7 million cars a year sounds like mass production to me.

Economies of scale was always dependent upon economies of flow and efficiency. No point in having a huge warehouse full of parts you'll never use. Its why you had storemen. 

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exiled CITY AFC

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#41
17/07/2017 at 16:44

Their 4.7m cars are high volume but I can assure you they are not doing 'mass production' in the 'any colour as long as it's black' or pile em high and sell em cheap of Henry Ford.

Economies of scale were based on the premise that massive investments in bespoke equipment, piles of inventory and armies of people could be recovered as long as you produced speculatively and sold in a large enough scale. Using discounts and incentives to stimulate demand. The system worked well until a superior system was born.

Just-in-time - the Japanese invented production system - created for their own low volume / high variantion market conditions eliminated speculative productions, stores, and standing armies of labour and bespoke machines. Unsing flexble labour and equipment they only make what is actually ordered and pull (instead of push) production through a series of internal transactions. There are no stores.

Anyone in the game of making stuff hasn't used mass production for decades and hence why we also know this stuff is now applicable to many more human endeavours. Too bad most of the general public don't know the history and think they know it all with Henry Ford.

Shame

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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Obadiah

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#42
17/07/2017 at 16:56

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 17/07/2017 at 16:44
Their 4.7m cars are high volume but I can assure you they are not doing 'mass production' in the 'any colour as long as it's black' or pile em high and sell em cheap of Henry Ford.

Economies of scale were based on the premise that massive investments in bespoke equipment, piles of inventory and armies of people could be recovered as long as you produced speculatively and sold in a large enough scale. Using discounts and incentives to stimulate demand. The system worked well until a superior system was born.

Just-in-time - the Japanese invented production system - created for their own low volume / high variantion market conditions eliminated speculative productions, stores, and standing armies of labour and bespoke machines. Unsing flexble labour and equipment they only make what is actually ordered and pull (instead of push) production through a series of internal transactions. There are no stores.

Anyone in the game of making stuff hasn't used mass production for decades and hence why we also know this stuff is now applicable to many more human endeavours. Too bad most of the general public don't know the history and think they know it all with Henry Ford.

Shame



You're using mass production in a very narrow sense. I'm using it in the general sense, meaning they produce a lot of things. 5 million cars is a lot of cars to me, ie they are mass produced. How they do that is an entirely different matter. I had noticed that Henry Ford's methods have long been outdated.  

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imperishablehcfc

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#43
17/07/2017 at 17:34

Back onto NHS non value added, so you might better understand Candw.

Just got back from the hospital with my dad for a pre-assessment for an op due at the weekend.

Got there 20 mins early and bloody hell dad got called through 5-10 mins early - good start.

ECG plus MRSA swabs under armpits etc, no doubt taken for convenience whilst he had his shirt off.

Dad returns after 5 mins.

30 mins later called through again by a different nurse, 45, yes 45 fucking minutes, of questions re all aspects of his health and home situation (must be the 10th one he's completed in the last 5 years) why the fuck can't they drag the last one out and ask dad if there has been any material change from 6 months ago!.

Then wheeled through to a 3rd nurse who take MRSA nasal swabs (different skill set?) and blood pressure and blood and urine sample (out of his bag) why the fuck couldn't first nurse have also done this?

They notice dad's arm is swollen / inflamed from a slight fall and now healed cut, dad tells them that has called docs surgery twice last thurs and earlier today, but they could not find record of first call but would get on to it as regards a prescription. The nurse said it would be beneficial if he could get running with the medication for it before sat, likely to be some anti B cream, so in response I said couldnt they do anything to help - NO.

Eventually we left after about 1.30 mins treatment time, about 5-10 mins, questionnaire 45 mins, rest of time our waiting time.

Best in class, haha, need more money, haha.





Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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candw

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#44
17/07/2017 at 18:21

...why the fuck can't they drag the last one out and ask dad if there has been any material change from 6 months ago!

Maybe the IT program fucked up? Maybe they can't trust it? Anyway, sounds pretty shit and it needs looking into. An "!inspector" needs to go in, armed with your post, to ask why it was done the way it was. Immediately. If you just moan on this board it won't get far.

Anyway, I'm going to put this post on Twitter - no names of course - and ask health professionals for comments. Difficult to do as they have 140 chars only.

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imperishablehcfc

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#45
17/07/2017 at 19:12

cheers bro, all help appreciated 

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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