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Hull City Forum >> CI Football Plus >> Human behaviour , Tax bombshell ends 'principled purchases'
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exiled CITY AFC

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#1
11/07/2017 at 14:14

I see sales of Tesla in HK just went from 3000per year to ZERO after the authorities ended the tax incentives to be green.

People eh?  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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imperishablehcfc

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#2
11/07/2017 at 15:46

Never been totally convinced as to the 'green credentials' of electric cars.

Not sure where all the batteries will be going when they start being scrapped either, that's after the earth has been violated to extract the reqd precious metals.

Better off with pedal power 

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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candw

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#3
11/07/2017 at 15:48

Yep. Diesel cars should be taxable per day, petrol by the week and electric by the year.

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essexgull

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#4
11/07/2017 at 16:03

Quote Quote by imperishablehcfc on 11/07/2017 at 15:46
Never been totally convinced as to the 'green credentials' of electric cars.

Not sure where all the batteries will be going when they start being scrapped either, that's after the earth has been violated to extract the reqd precious metals.

Better off with pedal power


It's the same as farming - there's virtually no way to do it with zero impact on the environment. The thinking is that the damage caused to the environment by the mining of lithium and cobalt for the batteries, then the eventual recycling of it, will be better over a ten year life of a car and it's ride than a fossil fuel equivalent.

A Tesla is a luxury 'green' car with capabilities far higher than the other electric cars on the market - the battery runs for ca. 5x the distance of competitors before needing a charge etc, so that's why it costs around £65k before any of the extras.

It looks like most West European countries will put huge tolls on diesels entering cities (already £20 a day to come into Oslo and banned on days of bad air pollution) and taxes, so if HK follows suit, the sales will rise again.

For all Tesla's and Musk's faults, he has effectively single-handedly advanced battery and power storage science along a decade, which is rather impressive. It won't be long before heavy metal recycling is cost and time effective and then the reliance on fossil fuels will be down to a bare minimum around the time that they're running out or no longer worth extracting. My wife has a BMW i3 through work and saves around £2k a year on fuel and toll costs - stupid not to take advantage of technology.


ESSEX GULL 

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imperishablehcfc

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#5
11/07/2017 at 18:42

The thing is we are where we are so you have also to factor in the massive environmental impact of a wholesale conversion from current to new technologies plus all the required infrastructure. A billion charging points and de-comissioning of a few hundred million petrol stations, oil tankers, road and sea etc etc. for starters. Now cars are no longer falling apart due to rusting we would be better off looking at how we encourage people to keep their cars for 30 years, with the necessary environmental improvements regards running them, rather than change them every 3 or 4 years. This would allow us to skip a generation of technology and go straight to the post electric model whatever that might be. I'm all for technological advancement but not in the name of the environment when the impact over a 50 year period will be massively negative. 

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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essexgull

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#6
11/07/2017 at 20:35

If you live in a city centre or anywhere with a high traffic concentration, the impact on your personal environment will change in a week, if all vehicles go electric. The air quality difference will be enormous.


EG 

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imperishablehcfc

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#7
11/07/2017 at 20:47

So you think all can go electric in a week?

Prob take a fortnight at least wont it.

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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essexgull

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#8
11/07/2017 at 21:39

If a ban on diesels and a high toll is placed on petrol vehicles entering urban areas, you'll see a change in a week and a probable crash in second hand car value.

I've seen it first-hand, little buddy.


EG 

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exiled CITY AFC

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#9
12/07/2017 at 10:53

And probably. The U.K. economy then...

More private debt is on cars than anything else
More high end manufacturing of cars than anything else
More financial services on PCP's than any none mortgage / pension products

The reality is the cars are getting greener and being self-phased out than virtually any other carbon spewing part of our economies.

In twenty years time the only un-green cars will be collector curios shown at fairs and summer fetes to show with (resulting rose tinted glasses) what the past was seemingly like.

Meanwhile ships will still be ploughing through the oceans belching out diesel fumes...buses will be allowed because council fleets won't be able to go green as quick as private citizens.

Such nonsense hand-wringing about cars when drinking a beer that came halfway around the world sat under a patio heater that pollutes more in an hour than you euro lev compliant car does in a year.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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imperishablehcfc

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#10
12/07/2017 at 11:48

exactly why a wholesale conversion to a new technology is in fact very un-green, hanging on to what you have would also do wonders for our balance of payments, and personal debt. The economy will have to adjust itself.

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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essexgull

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#11
12/07/2017 at 12:02

Peri old bean - it's like any revolution. The first phase is expensive and uneconomical. After a couple of years and generations, the costs are outpaced by the technological advances. You couldn't go straight to an iPhone 7 without the £1500 analogue Motorola.

Councils are already turning their bus fleets green, subsidised by the EU. Shipping is a problem to be solved, which will be in the next two decades.

EG 

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imperishablehcfc

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#12
12/07/2017 at 12:04

its not the economics of it I'm rebelling against it's the fake greenness 

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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essexgull

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#13
12/07/2017 at 12:08

Not sure what's fake. If you use an electric car for 7 years and drive an average of 15-20k km per year, it's significantly better for the environment than a diesel car, if current science is to be believed.


ESSEX GULL 

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exiled CITY AFC

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#14
12/07/2017 at 13:11

Is that the emissions at point-of-use science or the whole carbon cycle science? - I.e. including making the two cars and all their components plus the energy that will be needed to power them both for 7 years.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#15
12/07/2017 at 13:31

Are you suggesting that electric cars are just a con? Like Global Warming, often called Climate Change?

A US perspective

More about it.

I would like someone else to research the manufacturing facts.

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Hull City Forum >> CI Football Plus >> Human behaviour , Tax bombshell ends 'principled purchases'