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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#16
28/06/2017 at 11:45

Short horizon investment times a huge problem in the UK. Many not prepared to wait for five years for a return on their investment whilst infrastructure is built... Hence why all big projects are foreign owned and backed now in the UK.

Whole career politician MPs and ex-journalists/lawyers never a good thing. Lesson should have been learned by now.
The UK gets in charge who it deserves.

E&G 

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
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#17
28/06/2017 at 13:16

Agree 100% 

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#18
28/06/2017 at 16:10

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 28/06/2017 at 11:18
The trouble is we need to get up to competing speed in many areas that we have allowed ourselves to get so far behind in.

How did we do that? Not regulation, surely? Just poor management all round?

The engineers you want to re-train up in barrow and Faslane are all looking forward to imminent retirement and the only portability of their skills is probably into oil and gas platforms which are over. The renewable sector holds promise but only with massive productivity gains to bring the costs down. Unfortunately he majority of that is in the turbine and the German / Nordic monopoly is prohibitive to tags.

I'm sure that, with training, a skilled engineer could turn his hand to many different areas; they could make wave turbines for example. Solar constantly improves in efficiency and - dare I say this? - 'can do' countries are producing more and more power from renewables. We have problems in that area, but subsidies are cut and China is asked to build a huge nuclear facility; at subsidised costs to the makers.

Getting up to competing speed means having the productivity, quality, Cost and Morale (inc. safety) of the best global competition. Most of the Brits that know how to do that are busy helping our foreign competition doing that for massive money and an eager audience not butting in every five minutes to argue against progress.

If HS2 is 'progress', then that's why they complain.

Business planning of these matters should be done by people who actually understand the economic situation we are in not just the 'hit and hope' kind of projects like HS2

Who are those people?

Housing?

Where do we even start, we built houses quicker out of wood and cow shit

Because back in day the idea of house builders was to build houses, now it's to keep up the price of the current stock.

Decades ago party manifestos where put together by MP's that had been there and done it in real life before they entered poltics. People who understood economics and how to get things done. This was also true of unions. Contrast a Titan like Jimmy Reid with a clown like Len McCluskey

Jimmy would have had them marching and out on strike and you'd have been supporting him. Right.

These days the manifesto's are all about squabbling over the ever dwindling coffers not growing the nation both public and private sector. So the better question is if we are to plunge ourselves into greater debt what would you spend the money to get growth back.
The structural deficit is STILL there.

That's patently untrue, Mr Gang Politics. Yet the National Debt has risen to £1.9 trillion after 7 years of austerity.
 

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
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#19
28/06/2017 at 16:40

FFS JImmy led a 'work-in' to save the yards and sought to make them more productive so they could compete without their then anchor dragging management. You could not be more wrong about the great man.

The structural deficit is still there and the debt has grown precisely because it hasn't gone away. I have been consistent in calling out ALL parties on this because none seem to have a Scooby Doo of how to turn the ship around.

Meanwhile...Which bit of spending more than you make don't you get?

I'm interested as a Mathematics and Physics teacher how you would invest (whilst added even more debt) to finally reverse the structural deficit and turn things around after decades of decline hidden by a credit fuelled parlour trick?

It's not hard to understand is it.  

Post edited on 28/06/2017 at 16:43 by exiled CITY AFC

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#20
28/06/2017 at 18:31

Quote Quote by candw on 28/06/2017 at 16:10
The trouble is we need to get up to competing speed in many areas that we have allowed ourselves to get so far behind in.

How did we do that? Not regulation, surely? Just poor management all round?


My personal opinion is that it has happened since the 1980s, when a lot of people in the UK got wealthy 'relatively' easily and have done since in the booms - privatisation, subsidies, internet, housing, finance etc. It's reduced the appetite for long-term investment and planning and many want the quick easy gains now. UK banks, investors, 'punters' etc. all want the fast profit with relative little effort. It's why US, Japanese, German, Chinese investment and development in the UK is so important now and a sea change of education, expectations and widening of horizons in the business and investment community.

Unfortunately, British politicians as a whole and most civil servants are no longer up to the task of adequately seeing through big projects... the Garden Bridge being £44 million of public money being given away for nothing and Sadiq Khan doing the right thing and putting a stop to the whole debacle that was heading towards a quarter of a billion pounds if seen through.



ESSEX GULL

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
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#21
28/06/2017 at 19:51

Agree - look at the scandal of the electronic patient records project.
E:borders is another whopper
ID Cards
The Scottish parliament building
The list goes on and on.

Spend billions get fuck all and then take private sec company to court where a judge says again and again you are an idiot customer UK govt.

You make good points in that post gull.

Meanwhile like on here the clueless U.K. Public argue about how to spend money we don't have via credit that keeps piling up the debt.

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#22
28/06/2017 at 20:10

I do know about Jimmy Reid, exiled, and how Party discipline was the strength of the work-in. So you supported him then and would support a similar work in in a threatened enterprise? Good news.

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candw

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#23
28/06/2017 at 20:12

Meanwhile like on here the clueless U.K. Public argue about how to spend money we don't have via credit that keeps piling up the debt.

Remind us about QE. How did that actually help "the recovery"? Remind us how you would finance a growing economy, because it sure as hell won't finance itself.

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
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#24
28/06/2017 at 22:30

It will if you target waste - that's fucking free money that you are pissing down the drain - don't have to go cap-in-hand and ask anyone for anything.

Do it all the time with distressed companies and finance growth for fuck all. All you have to do is make sure that as the waste comes out and you create more capacity that you sell it and don't have folk sitting around doing nowt.

Yes I would support a jimmy Reid today because he understood the need for the yards to compete and not be forever reliant on hand-outs or being a money pit. The man was self taught in the Glasgow library and could run rings around so called intelligent men of greater qualifications. He lobbied government to be able to go and see with his own eyes why the worlds shipyards were becoming more productive. His stance in the miners strike was honourable and a beacon for democracy from a former communist party member. I have always got time for any man who seeks to understand first, consider the facts, then take a position.

Desperately need men of his calibre now.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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The Prince of Munster

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First used 20/01/17

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#25
30/06/2017 at 14:28

Quote Quote by imperishablehcfc on 27/06/2017 at 17:23
It would no doubt mean a period of adjustment but in the long term wold increase real spending power especially for those at lower end of earnings, so should be encouraged.

When you take into account the fact that many millions of people have received a PPI windfall it's even more staggering


It would mean that those "needing" (not necessarily your or my definition of need) or "wanting" (more likely) money would go to back door dodgy lenders, who'll break legs for non-payment and offer extortionate interest rates, which never end.

This happens now but am open door would be created if banks just stopped lending money.

Personally if you want to create a "savers economy" you're going to have to make it pay in the short term. Gov't bonuses like the lifetime ISA for a year's worth of saving etc.

I'm not sure it's actually doable without a complete crash. Perhaps getting rid of hard cash would be one way of doing it. 

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
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#26
30/06/2017 at 16:22

For the information of our in house financial illiterate:

The total national debt has indeed risen to £1.9 tr but in the same seven years UK's annual deficit has gone down by 2/3rds.

We are still spending more than we make but at least we are adding to the debt less and less and will soon reach a point where borrowing can start reducing.

What would you do to continue or improve the rate of improvement recovery of our position? 

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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The Prince of Munster

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#27
30/06/2017 at 21:14

In the meantime though our public services are getting cut to the bone and every corner that can be is being cut. Fantastic.

Three cheers for no pay rises:

Hip Hip... 

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candw

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#28
30/06/2017 at 21:38

What would you do to continue or improve the rate of improvement recovery of our position?

That sentence wears clogs. Both left footed.

I would grow the economy. Obviously you can't keep cutting if all that's really happened in 7 years is misery for the less well off. During the same period the rich have grown obscenely richer. Very little has trickled down.

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exiled CITY AFC

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11466 posts
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#29
30/06/2017 at 21:58

The 'richest' pot of money is the state.

They can print money, Loan it to themselves, and still manage to end up with less than they started...

why?

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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essexgull

8980 posts
First used 12/01/17

#30
01/07/2017 at 11:40

The state lost control of the global economy before WW2. Now global economic forces determine what the individual states must do to 'fit'in. Even China, with a population 20x that of the UK, has had to finally bend to market forces the last fifteen years. The UK creates money in accordance with what the global economy demands. Countries are now forced into debt, with the taxpayer picking up the tab, or they are punished - Ireland being a recent example.

The average UK taxpayer pays around 20-25% of their income to the Treasury. The average billionaire resident in the UK pays around 3-5% of their annual incomes to the UK Treasury. They employ cleaners, for example, on a minimal wage, who have their housing and wages subsidised by the UK taxpayer. This is what needs resolving with the national and global economy to reduce inequality and why Corbyn will always get a sizable chunk of votes. This isn't attacking or penalising the wealthy, it's asking them to contribute fairly to the world economy, rather than squirreling it away in their pockets/investment funds.



ESSEX GULL



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