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exiled CITY AFC

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#1
27/06/2017 at 13:29

As someone who has no credit in any form and has always 'down-sized' appropriately when income has got lower I find it amazing that UK personal borrowing is increasing at a record level.

Apparently Car loans for PCP's and credit cards are the cause.

Is the UK's propensity to a 'spend-to-pretend' version of wealth an actual addiction?

That Mark Carny is warning today must mean a crash is just around the corner.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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sbwtiger tigers

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#2
27/06/2017 at 13:43

And what can he do about it? He's only the Governor of The Bank of England.  

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exiled CITY AFC

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#3
27/06/2017 at 14:44

He can warn of a crash that would and should modify both bank and consumer behaviour.

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#4
27/06/2017 at 16:04

What has always puzzled me is this: If we didn't use credit for major purchases, how many cars would be sold? What effect would that have on the UK economy? Other major items too.

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imperishablehcfc

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#5
27/06/2017 at 17:23

It would no doubt mean a period of adjustment but in the long term wold increase real spending power especially for those at lower end of earnings, so should be encouraged.

When you take into account the fact that many millions of people have received a PPI windfall it's even more staggering 

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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candw

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#6
27/06/2017 at 18:35

Quote Quote by imperishablehcfc on 27/06/2017 at 17:23
It would no doubt mean a period of adjustment but in the long term wold increase real spending power especially for those at lower end of earnings, so should be encouraged.

When you take into account the fact that many millions of people have received a PPI windfall it's even more staggering


Period of adjustment is a term without a time limit and it would be interesting to know how long it might last and how much disruption it would cause. I wonder if anyone has run a simulation at all?

As for PPI, it kept the Austerity Party's economic miracle from crashing completely. In addition to clever car schemes and the borrowing.

I'm not being judgemental, because I feel for those who can only watch the world passing by rather than participating in it if they didn't use credit.

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imperishablehcfc

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#7
27/06/2017 at 19:26

But the reality is that they are not participating as fully as they could as they are just supporting the 'loaners', year after year,.

Even with interest rates at record low levels the amount 'lost' to interest payments must be significant over any reasonable amount of time.

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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candw

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#8
27/06/2017 at 20:06

I don't disagree with you, I'm just not surprised people take advantage of the easy availability of loans. When I was a younger bloke, a bank manager was your only option and he really grilled you over a loan. Now it's ten seconds over the phone and a £3000 limit.

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exiled CITY AFC

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#9
27/06/2017 at 21:23

The 'spend to pretend' economy has enabled all sorts of illusionary wealth - example: it is supposedly cheaper to lease a merc than a ford because they depreciate less and thus monthly payments are lower.

In reality the poor sap is just hiring a car but to him/her and the neighbours he is a merc owner.

Successive governments have done exactly the same and borrowed to sustain a level of spending equivalent to that when we made everything for the rest of the world and exports generated our massive wealth.

The personal version of this means we are now doubly indebted as a people. It's not just your personal debt it's that that HM govt has saddled on you and your kids.

The Wealth of Nations was first mentioned in Parliament by the Whig leader Charles James Fox on 11 November 1783:
"There was a maxim laid down in an excellent book upon the Wealth of Nations which has been ridiculed for its simplicity, but which was indisputable as to its truth. In that book it was stated that the only way to become rich was to manage matters so as to make one's income exceed one's expenses. This maxim applies equally to an individual and to nations.

Since the election living within the nations means is now dead again and FFS given the madness is to start again if we are to borrow let's at least invest it in things that will fucking pay back in the future.

Let's list below items we think we shouldn't and should invest borrowed money on.  

Post edited on 27/06/2017 at 21:25 by exiled CITY AFC

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#10
27/06/2017 at 21:42

Since the election living within the nations means is now dead again and FFS given the madness is to start again if we are to borrow let's at least invest it in things that will fucking pay back in the future.

I reckon John McConnell said that first. And I agree with him and with you.

My starter.

1) The retraining of the skilled engineers and the re-tooling of the submarine manufacturies in Barrow to produce something really useful and needed in the world.

This is a good idea, exiled.

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charon-the-ferryman

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#11
27/06/2017 at 22:08

McDonnell also said this first

"It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.'

what a cunt - sorry doesn't do it, not by a long way Balls Crap Wanker

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candw

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#12
28/06/2017 at 07:55

If you want to start on Northern Ireland and the centuries long bigoted treatment received by Catholics at the hands of the British government and their imported Protestant stooges, I suggest you do a bit of reading and then start a new thread.

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imperishablehcfc

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#13
28/06/2017 at 09:21

Infrastructure projects should be given a reasonable priority BUT only after a well thought out business case has gained general acceptance as to it's likely delivery of long term benefits. This should be part of a well publicised national strategy that should also be promoted (cross party) to speed up required approvals especially in terms of transportion / energy deliver projects that might well mean some people's lives are disrupted in the national interest.

We actually need to start with a vision / strategy for delivery, that spells out how we expect to be living, working, generating wealth in the next 50 to 100 years and then private / public enterprises can align to this.

Fuck the short term we will build a 1000 year Hull City Reich 

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candw

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#14
28/06/2017 at 10:20

A "Five Year Plan" would be good. Or several of these for different areas; housing, energy, transport etc. I know they have a bit of a bad name, but in a way they do exist - as Party Manifestos.

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exiled CITY AFC

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#15
28/06/2017 at 11:18

The trouble is we need to get up to competing speed in many areas that we have allowed ourselves to get so far behind in.

The engineers you want to re-train up in barrow and Faslane are all looking forward to imminent retirement and the only portability of their skills is probably into oil and gas platforms which are over. The renewable sector holds promise but only with massive productivity gains to bring the costs down. Unfortunately he majority of that is in the turbine and the German / Nordic monopoly is prohibitive to tags.

Getting up to competing speed means having the productivity, quality, Cost and Morale (inc. safety) of the best global competition. Most of the Brits that know how to do that are busy helping our foreign competition doing that for massive money and an eager audience not butting in every five minutes to argue against progress.

Business planning of these matters should be done by people who actually understand the economic situation we are in not just the 'hit and hope' kind of projects like HS2

Housing?

Where do we even start, we built houses quicker out of wood and cow shit

Decades ago party manifestos where put together by MP's that had been there and done it in real life before they entered poltics. People who understood economics and how to get things done.
This was also true of unions.
Contrast a Titan like Jimmy Read with a clown like Len McCluskey

These days the manifesto's are all about squabbling over the ever dwindling coffers not growing the nation both public and private sector.

So the better question is if we are to plunge ourselves into greater debt what would you spend the money to get growth back.

The structural deficit is STILL there.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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