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candw

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#31
25/06/2017 at 20:24

You're a fucking clown, exiled. Like the Tories and David Cameron in particular. "The Bonfire of Red Tape" will mean that the "Bonfire of the Council Tenants" will become a regular occurrence. Well, had people not marched in rage; now they will think twice.

Oh, I suppose you noticed that private landlords are not mandated to check cladding, etc. But then, 72 Tory landlords would have to pay for that, rather than the council tax payers. You can roast 'em if you're a toff!

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theotherphantom

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#32
25/06/2017 at 21:26

Indeed. It was Tory landlords who decided the private members bill from a Labour MP requiring let properties to be fit for human habitation would be talked out. God* forbid that it might cost landlords a few bob to make their properties safe.



* also no help. 

>>>>> 12th season in exile <<<<< 

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exiled CITY AFC

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#33
25/06/2017 at 21:39

You really think that the pursuit of profit is really something different to just good old human activity don't you...?

I have seen it all on HSE as I have worked in virtually every sector and yes including construction. I'll bet for sure I have spent more time in PPE and had more HSE training than you and candice.

I have seen a safety officer hospitalised by a pallet of safety helmets dropping from height onto his un-helmeted head, I have been to mines in Russia that killed 9 people a year before I helped them to get it down to zero within a year and since.

Having seen sites all over the world the U.K. Safety culture is the rules will fix it but they don't."

Sure things have gotten better but the now 60+ buildings with 'firelighters for cladding' over more than 25 local councils shows us that either profit or not for profit the current regime ain't working is it?

The most productive workplaces are invariably the safest btw - take a little while to wonder why and then why you assuming the opposite belief from myself and Charon would indicate ignorance of the highest order. 

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#34
25/06/2017 at 22:01

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 25/06/2017 at 21:39
You really think that the pursuit of profit is really something different to just good old human activity don't you...?

If it is at the expense of safety, or decency, or...lots of things, then YES.

I have seen it all on HSE as I have worked in virtually every sector and yes including construction. I'll bet for sure I have spent more time in PPE and had more HSE training than you and candice.

You've also aced Acronym 101, dude.

I have seen a safety officer hospitalised by a pallet of safety helmets dropping from height onto his un-helmeted head, I have been to mines in Russia that killed 9 people a year before I helped them to get it down to zero within a year and since.

Right. So safety regulations are good? Yes?

Having seen sites all over the world the U.K. Safety culture is the rules will fix it but they don't."

So what fixes it? Lack of rules? Not following the rules?

Sure things have gotten better but the now 60+ buildings with 'firelighters for cladding' over more than 25 local councils shows us that either profit or not for profit the current regime ain't working is it?

There's no "not for profit" in it. All the buildings were built or renovated or clad by for profit PriSec companies.

The most productive workplaces are invariably the safest btw - take a little while to wonder why and then why you assuming the opposite belief from myself and Charon would indicate ignorance of the highest order.

The safest workplaces are invariably the most productive, btw. Yes?

Safety regulations = safety regulations, to misquote May. Safety regulations =/= red tape.

 

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exiled CITY AFC

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#35
26/06/2017 at 02:19

The way to make work safe is to make the work inherently safe (through innovation) not add a check list and a couple of goons with clipboards watching you.

One keeps the productivity and often improves it the other approach divides it by three and leads to box ticking.

You know nothing abo the subject yet you throw your assumptions left right and centre.

There is an intelligent way to achieve safety and the idiots way.

Anyway back on topic what about the >10k marching peacefully in London today?

Why no media coverage of the football lads alliance? 

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#36
26/06/2017 at 07:47

The way to make work safe is to make the work inherently safe (through innovation) not add a check list and a couple of goons with clipboards watching you.

"goons with clipboards". Obviously you know all about the subject.

Anyway, it's from the 'entrepreneurs' private sector that we will expect this innovation although, at present, they seem to stick on substandard cladding and charge the full price and motor manufacturers cheat emission figures and private enterprise, in general, shows that it needs watching like a hawk.  

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exiled CITY AFC

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#37
26/06/2017 at 10:34

Two examples from millions of human activities make a rule eh?

So no only can you not Interpret data objectively and in context, nor follow an argument made in principle but you lurch from one hastily made conclusion to another based on poltical dogma made by a belief paradigm. Is it safe to say you were never a teacher of e rational science based subjects.

Imagine me making that kind of conclusion. - it would be sure to have and 'ism' on the end to label it. 

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#38
26/06/2017 at 10:54

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 26/06/2017 at 10:34
Two examples from millions of human activities make a rule eh?

So no only can you not Interpret data objectively and in context, nor follow an argument made in principle but you lurch from one hastily made conclusion to another based on poltical dogma made by a belief paradigm. Is it safe to say you were never a teacher of e rational science based subjects.

Imagine me making that kind of conclusion. - it would be sure to have and 'ism' on the end to label it.


Fucking hell, how many examples do you want? If you can't follow an argument from a couple of examples, how many would you need? I don't "lurch" and I don't do "belief paradigms" and you argument is made "in principle", but the principle is that government/inspectors regulations BAD, privates will do it right unchecked GOOD. Dream on!

I taught Maths and Physics.

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candw

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#39
26/06/2017 at 11:57

Here's one I found earlier.

Privately rented accommodation (Regulation - must be fit for human habitation. Unnecessary.

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Hulltim8 City AFC

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#40
26/06/2017 at 11:59

Quote Quote by candw on 26/06/2017 at 10:54


Fucking hell, how many examples do you want? If you can't follow an argument from a couple of examples, how many would you need? I don't "lurch" and I don't do "belief paradigms" and you argument is made "in principle", but the principle is that government/inspectors regulations BAD, privates will do it right unchecked GOOD. Dream on!

I taught Maths and Physics.


I hope Abbott wasn't one of your pupils. 

2005 Labour got 355 seats from 35.2 % of the vote on a 62.4% turnout. 2015 Tories got 331 seats from 36.9% of the vote on a 661% turnout. Left wing fannies moan the second one is sooooo unfair and we need electoral reform. But didn't utter a peep,about the first one. 

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exiled CITY AFC

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#41
26/06/2017 at 14:02

Quote Quote by candw on 26/06/2017 at 10:54


Fucking hell, how many examples do you want? If you can't follow an argument from a couple of examples, how many would you need? I don't "lurch" and I don't do "belief paradigms" and you argument is made "in principle", but the principle is that government/inspectors regulations BAD, privates will do it right unchecked GOOD. Dream on!

I taught Maths and Physics.


I am still trying to recover from this amazing revaluation.

I follow your arguments from a couple of examples really well but know from my own physics studies that one data source does not prove a hypothesis. Koons proved that cognitive bias will prevent even otherwise rational scientists to be incapable of seeing data their personal paradigms don't agree with.

I don't believe govt good private bad or vice Versa the former seems to be your fixed belief. You constantly fly in the face of data. We now know that more than 60 buildings are similar death traps - we still don't know how many hotpoint fridges are faulty - but we do know those buildings are a variety of cases some which have
ELEMENTS that fit your hypothesis and some that don't. Deep down I know you want the private sector elements of this chain to be guilty of killing people but the reality is it was a team effort in all cases. It will all come out in the wash and then we can reflect on what to do but meanwhile rational adults should behave accordingly.  

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#42
26/06/2017 at 15:35

Quote Quote by exiled CITY AFC on 26/06/2017 at 14:02


I am still trying to recover from this amazing revaluation.

That's probably because you are ignorant and bigoted.

I follow your arguments from a couple of examples really well but know from my own physics studies that one data source does not prove a hypothesis. Koons proved that cognitive bias will prevent even otherwise rational scientists to be incapable of seeing data their personal paradigms don't agree with.

Sounds cool. Does it mean anything? Does it mean that regulation is bad? Or that regulation is not necessary?

I don't believe govt good private bad or vice Versa the former seems to be your fixed belief. You constantly fly in the face of data. We now know that more than 60 buildings are similar death traps - we still don't know how many hotpoint fridges are faulty - but we do know those buildings are a variety of cases some which have ELEMENTS that fit your hypothesis and some that don't.

The 60 buildings have dodgy cladding that save the firms concerned a few bob. However many Hotpoint fridges there are BUILDINGS DON'T BURN TO THE GROUND IN SECONDS because of fridges catching fire.

Deep down I know you want the private sector elements of this chain to be guilty of killing people but the reality is it was a team effort in all cases. It will all come out in the wash and then we can reflect on what to do but meanwhile rational adults should behave accordingly.

I want the people who fitted dodgy tiles to be heavily shafted and, if the council signed off the deal to save a few bob, or looked the other way at regulations being broken, I want them hammered too. If the council did it, it's because they settled for £9.4 million rather than £11.6 million. It's my feeling that the council took a bit of the savings on a nod and a wink.
 

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candw

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#43
26/06/2017 at 15:37

Quote Quote by Hulltim8 City AFC on 26/06/2017 at 11:59


I hope Abbott wasn't one of your pupils.


I'm pretty sure she wasn't. I'm also pretty sure that the Tory, who costed school breakfasts at 6.8p per pupil, wasn't either. And as for Phil Hammond...

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exiled CITY AFC

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#44
26/06/2017 at 21:38

Quote Quote by candw on 26/06/2017 at 15:35



Thank fuck you never joined the police.

Decide the crime and the guilty then find the evidence to fit.... 

Let it never be said that I was silent when they needed me - William Wilberforce 

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candw

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#45
26/06/2017 at 21:49

I really don't understand why you find it difficult to admit this government - last, actually - for nor acting on the enquiry's recommendation after the Lakanal fire. I don't see why you are trying not to condemn the makers of combustible cladding for homes. I can't see why you don't condemn the firm for fitting cheaper tiles than were specified. And I can't see why you are toying with the idea of blaming the fridge.

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